I think I've gone a bit mad, but not enough to do anything about.

[Smellyoldowls22]

So, last 11 months I've had PND/PNA really badly, felt very low.

I've started to feel bad again, wishing I was dead etc.
But I've also started to believe there's a fractal world just under the surface of this world. That everything is fractals, and they're the base unit of the universe. And if you scratched the surface of this world you would reveal the fractal world. I know that if I did die I would just go to the fractal world, so in a sense there would be no escape.
I don't really know how to explain it. I feel very agitated.
At the same time I know this sounds ridiculous, so I'm probably not actually psychotic.

I just wish I could feel normal and un-anxious again. I hate living like this.

Oh lovely, you do sound quite poorly but if you think you'll be ok for tonight please, please seek help in the morning and if you feel that you can pop on here when you're able to let us know you're ok. We'll be thinking of you.

It's really hard to understand unless you've seen it? Like, it's enormously complex. Have you really not seen it?

Have you got someone IRL you can speak to OP?

If you’re having suicidal thoughts and these delusions you need to speak to someone now.

I'm worried about you and your DC

I'm ok for tonight, thank you though. I've felt suicidal for quite some time.

Aw man it's rough when you're bonkers and you know it. While hypnopompic and hypnagogic hallucinations are common phenomena not related to mental illness, what you're describing doesn't sound like what's typical for that. But it does sound kind of similar to what I experience when I'm very sleep-deprived due to hypomania. Among other things, I get exquisitely complex intricate moving patterns on surfaces, a little like what you get if you press your eyeballs in the dark but more convoluted.

How much sleep are you getting?

OP - I hope you get the printer and your son’s uniform sorted and get to bed.

Your ideas are interesting - I think at the level they are at they are possibly there to protect you from feeling suicidal - as you say you do. Our brains are good at distracting us from distress. But often these distractions then become part of the problem, and that’s what’s happening with you I think.

Please ring your GP first thing and be clear you need urgent attention. You need to get on to this ASAP, probably with a combination of medication and talking.

You will feel much better soon with some help, but you are less well than you think you are, so it is urgent.

Please come back tomorrow and tell us where you’ve got to - I know a lot of us will be thinking about you x

Please try to get more sleep OP. It will help massively.

Hi OP, not read the full thread but caught your mention that knowing these were delusional thinking/hallucinations means that you probably aren’t psychotic. Just to say, when I suffered a psychotic breakdown I was absolutely aware that my delusions were nonsense, but it didn't stop them actually being delusions and me being psychotic. Please contact someone asap as psychosis can be dealt with really well if caught early. Good luck xx

Fractals are basically recurring patterns that can be broken down smaller and smaller but keep the same pattern of the whole in a smaller size - is that right? They are seen in nature such as in snowflakes - if you zoom in on a snowflake you will get mini snowflakes.

It's fascinating - but this article is pretty clear that the universe isn't fractal:
www.space.com/universe-pattern-fractals-cosmic-web

It says:
The universe is definitely not a fractal, but parts of the cosmic web still have interesting fractal-like properties. For example, clumps of dark matter called "halos," which host galaxies and their clusters, form nested structures and substructures, with halos holding sub-haloes and sub-sub-halos inside those.

There is not another world under the surface of this world thankfully! That sounds more like hell to me! I think the idea of fractal patterns everywhere is rather beautiful though - snowflakes are bloody amazing!

It does sound like you are suffering really badly from anxiety and severe anxiety can trigger psychosis so please, please do speak to someone about this as soon as you can. It must be really, really horrible for you to feel like this and you shouldn't have to xxx

I'm open minded but no perspectives of fractals

@Smellyoldowls22
What's your perspectives and experiences with fractals ?

Conversations about fractals in this sense of what people see or don’t see - are not helpful on this thread. I say this kindly, as someone who has a degree in them.

OP as mumsnet HQ has posted please contact someone tonight and show them this thread.
These are delusions. I wish you peace and health and hope you get the support you need.

Fractals definitely do exist in nature - I remember seeing a Christmas Lecture on them in the mid 1980s which I found fascinating (Snowflakes and ferns being specific examples I remember from all that time ago). I also know that it is human nature to seek and see patterns in things, it is partly how we all make sense of the world.

I also know that when I am stressed I obsess about certain aspects of life, seeing some things as being directly related to others where others do not see any real connection.

Whilst I think it is very important that you talk to your mental health team who can support your mental health, I think it is also not unlikely that they will not necessarily have any understanding of what fractals are (I hope they do) never mind understand how you are seeing them.

So whilst it is incredibly important to get support from the mental health team I wonder if would also be useful for you to research about what scientists understand about fractals and their place in our world. Ideally you would speak to a scientist that knows about fractals but, barring that, reading real life research and understanding may help you connect what you are experiencing with what scientists understand.

I hope you sleep well tonight and really hope you are able to find the support you need.

I Understand your perspectives, but I see it like let's say we were in the film the matrix, and someone that had seen a person turn into an agent, or someone saw the matrix code, most people would think omg 😲 that's not possible etc.

so here we have fractal instead of matrix code, hence my questions.
obviously I wish the op, all the best and positivity

OP, please contact someone tonight, as per the suggestions upthread. Your thoughts and agitation aren't quite right, as you know already. Contact someone tonight so that you and your kids are safe. Wishing you all the best.

Hawkins001 you are really not helping here. Step away and have some bloody respect for the OP and everyone else who is helping.

Sounds like you need to get to GP op, update us and hope you are ok. I got bad anxiety and postnatal ocd six months ago it came to a head and I felt like nothing felt real but I knew that wasn’t normal- it was like my brain over analysed everything as I was in flight mode! Three days on setraline and wow I felt miles better- and calmer- more myself. Never looked back. So glad you recognise this though. Sometimes it’s not psychosis- just intelligence mixed with stress and hormone overload.xx

@Hawkins001 this really isn't the thread for it.

OP, you really do need to speak to somebody about this.

OP, us again! We hope you don't mind but we're going to move your thread to our mental health section where we think you'll find lots more people who've been in your position with good advice.

@Smellyoldowls22
Apologies op, if I've not helped.
I wish you the best and positively.
I am interested in your theories but only if you want to discuss.

That said based on the recommendation of others on the thread, I'll go to other threads.

OP, you are unwell and it very much sounds like you are having delusional thoughts. We all sense unusual things at times on the edge of sleep, but when we are fully awake know that they are not real. This is in addition to the other MH issues you are experiencing.

Adding my voice to others to urge you to seek urgent help as soon as possible and wishing you the very best.

OP, I hope you can get some support. It can be scary to have thoughts that you know aren't rational or real. The mind is a powerful and sometimes dangerous place.

Hey OP, when I was sick a few years ago (for quite a while) I also had hypnopompic hallucinations. They happened right as I was waking up, my brain was still in a dream state and I would see fractal/ sparkling shapes in the air. I didn’t have the mental health issues attached so I knew it wasn’t real. Are you getting enough sleep? I found that once I had full rest and could wake up properly it stopped. 86% of hypnopompic hallucinations are visual and involve colours/ shapes.

Given your mental health, and the fact that you’re struggling to discern it from reality I would say you need to talk to your GP or your mental health team, they will help you. I’m so sorry you’re feeling like this, I wish you all the best xx

I know nothing about fractals beyond what someone else posted about snowflakes and ferns - I have no more seen them than I have seen the atoms that make up stuff.

I have however experienced hallucinations both as a result of drugs (Cyclazine, makes me see things in my peripheral vision, writing appears and vanishes, small biomech insecty things trundle around, its rather nice really) and sleep deprivation (not nice, im not totally sure if I am awake or asleep and im not in control of what comes out of my mouth and things I think are happening are not).

Please seek some help, I think you're falling into the trap of believing that because you are able to voice that these things are not real, you're not in need of help - you are, you really really are!

I sort of could about 2 years ago when I woke up first thing on the morning, but it turned out it was because I was taking propanalol and nytol together and it was causing visual disturbances. I didn't know you weren't supposed to do that! Are you sure there isn't a medication that you are taking that is causing this?