Can anyone give me hope regarding 18 year old dd (will she get better with age and experience?)- massively affected by anxiety and unable to properly engage with life and its challenges

[LimitIsUp]

She has had her issues since year 9 (school refusal etc), more attendance issues at sixth form college, and then bailing out of University almost immediately.

Huge panic attack / meltdown today regarding 'knowing that she is a problem', hating herself and hating life, stating that she will never be able to go to University or hold down more than a minimum wage job' etc etc

She just can't do what her friends do (can't stay over at another friends house, can't talk to strangers, struggles to go into a shop and buy things on her own, can't do most casual jobs because the working environment is huge and scary (said about supermarket jobs, a job at a local theme park etc) - her safe space is very limited

She is medicated (citalopram), and is on her third counsellor (this one is offering CBT)

Might she just get better with age? I know anxiety is a life long condition but will she learn to manage it more effectively as she matures? I just feel that perhaps she is struggling with the transition from child to adult?

Are there any mumsnetters out there who were like this when younger but are now more able to deal with life?

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Bumping for active conversations

I was a bit like this as a child/young adult. I was miserably anxious throughout my 20s - tended to do hobbies/jobs/studies to please other people rather than myself. As I turned 30, became a wife, mother etc, I gave much less of a shit about what other people thought and have tended to structure my life around what suits me.

What 'life's challenges' do you want her to properly engage with? What should she be doing in your eyes that she's not doing?

Thank you for your reply

In terms of life challenges, she has said that she would like to go to university in October 2022 so I would like to see her doing some research about what she wants to study and where - not just leave it and expect it to happen magically

I'd like her to be able to go into a shop on her own and buy things without needing me or a friend to go in with her.

She should be able to stay away from home for a night if the occasion demands it (she can't - one of the reasons she bailed on Uni in last autumn)

Whilst she is deciding what she wants to do with her life, she should be able to look for an alternative job to the one she is currently doing part time, which requires me to drive her a 34 mile round trip from 7-8 in the morning and collect her (another 34 mile round trip) from 4-5pm every evening. She has her driving test at the end of May and I have said that I will continue to drive her until the end of June, but if she hasn't passed her test by then she needs to find an alternative job locally. I have been driving her since November. Its also a minimum wage job packing sweets on a production line - she admits its boring and unsatisfying

I would also like her to stop lashing out at her family

I'd also like her to be able to manage her anxiety without constantly buying weed

The shyness aspects definitely get better as a person gets older. I'm not sure it's shyness or something else, but you mention talking to strangers and buying things in a shop.
I'm much less shy now than when I was a teenager (most of us probably are), but I would have preferred having some intervention to just becoming slightly less shy very, very gradually over the years. I don't appear shy now at all, but it does still affect my life unfortunately.
Not relevant of course if shyness isn't part of it.
I'm not a fan of illegal drugs and never taken them, but there are obviously differing opinions on how dangerous weed is...

I'm not a fan of weed either but she is 18, has her own money, and despite me making my views very plain she continues to smoke it

She has General Anxiety and also Social Anxiety. She genuinely believes that everyone is judging her and she is terrified by crowds of people - so its shyness turbo charged if you like

Its reassuring to hear that both of you are doing better now than you were at her age

as weed is known to cause anxiety and limits motivation which isn't going to help her, she should look to get off that ASAP if she's wanting to improve

Using weed will massively increase her paranoia, self consciousness and anxiety. It will also negatively affect her sleep patterns. Starting some kind of high impact exercise would help regulate how much stress adrenalin she produces and help to reduce the panic attacks. I can’t believe she can’t find a job closer to home but she might need you to help her organise it. Also is it not possible for you to get some brochures on colleges she might be interested in, and then Covid allowing go for a day out and have a look around together? Agree to help her, reassure her that she will get to a point where anxiety is not ruling her life and choices but she has to also try to help herself. She needs to stop using weed, take up regular high impact exercise and meditation and do the CBT. You can then agree to help her as far as possible with the things that seem currently insurmountable.

I would say that tough love is the best way, I was a very anxious child and teenager, not to the degree you’re describing with your daughter, but I didn’t like meeting new people, I was so shy people would always tell me how quiet I was, hated doing things alone. The key is not enabling her to avoid things, my best friends mum would do everything for her and now she’s a 31 year old mum who can’t even take her daughter to the park of shops alone, let alone go to mother and baby groups.

She needs to learn she is capable of doing things for herself and alone, this will build her confidence. Anxiety is a lack of confidence in my experience, the more you do something that scares you the less scary it becomes and then at some point it doesn’t bother you at all. The more people do things for her and with her it reinforces the belief that she needs someone there.

Not read the full thread, but has she had a neurodevelopmental assessment - traits of ASC, I think.

@LimitIsUp

I'd also like her to be able to manage her anxiety without constantly buying weed

This wont help her. The effect weed has on young brains is not to be dismissed lightly. Does her GP know she’s smoking it? Here’s just one of a myriad of scientific papers on the subject.

I know that, she knows that (re some of the downsides of weed - mental health issues etc) - she still smokes it. I can't get her to stop. Believe me I have tried - even convincing her at one point that her cyclical vomiting was due to cannaboid hyperemesis - she has worked out that it isn't the cause, emotional distress is the trigger for vomiting in her case. How do you suggest I get her to stop? Her anxiety preceeded her weed use by circa 4 years. She claims that weed actually makes her more positive and better able to cope.

Re the job closer to home - I have tried to help her. I've done her CV with her, practised interviews etc. She has been offered three jobs closer to home all of which she has turned down because they were too much (too intimidating, she wouldn't be able to do them, too scary). She does not believe in herself

Her motivation is good - she gets up at 6.15 to get to work at 7 - if she was the classic stoner stereotype she wouldn't be doing this. The only reason she can do that job is because on her first day she refused to go in due to anxiety (panic attack in the car on the way there) and messaged the boss to apologise and explain. The boss has family members with anxiety and took dd under her wing and encouraged her to start work the next day, and continues to make accomodations for her. Its not motivation holding her back, its irrational all consuming anxiety

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3930618/

Sorry, forgot the link.

Gwynfluff - we have wondered about ASC (it was actually dd who suggested that she might have ASC). I have papers for Lorna Wing - perhaps we should go ahead and complete them

Soontobe60 - thank you, I've read a number of articles in the past and so appreciate the potential side effects of weed. Actually stopping an 18 year old is nigh on impossible though

I think you also need an end goal here, because at the moment you’ve got an 18 year old drug taker who is completely and utterly dependent on you and, unless something changes, in 12 years time you will have a 30 year old drug taker completely dependent on you.

So, I would have some non-negotiables. She doesn’t think drugs into the house / smoke drugs in the house. And if she does she will have to leave. And mean it.

Do not buy her things from the shops. If she wants it she can get it herself.

I think this is cruel to be kind now.

@Elsiebear90

I would say that tough love is the best way, I was a very anxious child and teenager, not to the degree you’re describing with your daughter, but I didn’t like meeting new people, I was so shy people would always tell me how quiet I was, hated doing things alone. The key is not enabling her to avoid things, my best friends mum would do everything for her and now she’s a 31 year old mum who can’t even take her daughter to the park of shops alone, let alone go to mother and baby groups.

She needs to learn she is capable of doing things for herself and alone, this will build her confidence. Anxiety is a lack of confidence in my experience, the more you do something that scares you the less scary it becomes and then at some point it doesn’t bother you at all. The more people do things for her and with her it reinforces the belief that she needs someone there.

There is something in this Elsiebear90, but stepping back has to be managed carefully.

I admit I do regularly advise her and get involved in her decisions - but in my defence that was necessary when her problems first manifested as a 13 year old. I am now trying to get her to do things at her own pace and on her own initative - but the danger with that is she won't leave her comfort zone and push herself at all. But maybe that's okay? I honestly don't know whats for the best

@PotteringAlong

I think you also need an end goal here, because at the moment you’ve got an 18 year old drug taker who is completely and utterly dependent on you and, unless something changes, in 12 years time you will have a 30 year old drug taker completely dependent on you.

So, I would have some non-negotiables. She doesn’t think drugs into the house / smoke drugs in the house. And if she does she will have to leave. And mean it.

Do not buy her things from the shops. If she wants it she can get it herself.

I think this is cruel to be kind now.

I am painfully aware of this (your first para)

I don't think I can threaten to throw her out if she smokes weed at home - its not in me, and I don't think its the right thing to do given her problems. I can't imagine throwing a son or daughter out in any circumstances.

I have stopped buying her things from the shops and she is improving in that regard

I have also given her an ultimatum to find another job by the end of June (she can continue with that job if she chooses, but I won't be driving her there after that point). So I am doing tough-ish love. But tough love can only go so far when you dc isn't neuro typical

@LimitIsUp

Soontobe60 - thank you, I've read a number of articles in the past and so appreciate the potential side effects of weed. Actually stopping an 18 year old is nigh on impossible though

I agree, it’s almost insurmountable as she needs to want to stop for herself. A parent telling their 18 old that they shouldn’t be smoking / drinking / driving too fast etc is just going to get ignored.

Have you been able to speak to someone for your own support? As a parent we want to solve all our children’s problems, but sometimes we get so immersed in them that we forget to look after our own mental health.

Soontobe60 - that's very insightful of you. I am cracking up here under the strain (and I am mentally strong as a rule). I have been thinking of counselling for me and should really start the ball rolling.

How is she actually getting hold of her weed? I would make it very clear that she is not to smoke in the house at all. Not by threatening her, but just telling her.
You’ve said she talks about going back to University, does she have a plan on how to achieve this? Could she draw up a list of pros and cons around this? Also, has she thought of any alternative things she could do instead? We often push the university route as the only way to be successful, and yet 20 years ago, the vast majority of teens didn’t go to Uni, they took other paths.

@LimitIsUp

Soontobe60 - that's very insightful of you. I am cracking up here under the strain (and I am mentally strong as a rule). I have been thinking of counselling for me and should really start the ball rolling.

Absolutely. You’re no use to her if you go under x