I don't know how to get to tomorrow

[iwasagirlinavillage]

I have a thread in relationships about my marriage collapsing. As a result I can feel myself succumbing to depression and there's nothing I can do to stop it. I already take ADs and I had CBT which ended just before the separation. I just can't do this. Even breathing feels like an almighty difficult task. I have two children so I know I just have to keep going but if it was just me I'm quite certain I would have given up by now. I feel like I've completely slowed down physically, like I'm starting to shut down. But shutting down would be a welcome relief. Although then I think of my DDs and know that I can't do that and a wave of exhaustion hits me again and I feel the weight of it all afresh. I can't do this.

The condom box and message do seem a little deliberate. but maybe he's just being less careful now as you know?

How would you feel about texting him and just asking him who the ow is and where he met her? Ask him is it serious?

I know these are questions you don't necessarily want the answers to but it would stop you guessing and would give you some clarity as to her.

He may well not tell you - you'd have to appeal to his nice side and say it would help you greatly to know who she was and how it had all started etc

Up to you? I think on the whole you are recovering because you are focusing on yourself and the girls. If you can get to a point where you don't care about the answers that would be the goal. I know the not knowing would eat me up tho.

I'm not sure. I don't think I really need to know. It doesn't change anything. And whatever the answer it wouldn't make me feel better. I don't know if I really care that much. What does it matter? The OW is somewhat irrelevant. It's more a question of why he has done this, why he has treated his children this way and if there's any potential for him to revert back to the father he used to be in the future.

DD1 is struggling a lot. She is very emotional. Completely distraught. Almost delirious at times. She is over tired which isn't helping. But she keeps having awful tantrums where you just can't get through to her. She sobs and throws things and hits and kicks out. She'll ask me to do something and then get upset with me for doing it. Nothing I do makes it better and everything I do seems to make it worse. I'm a bit anxious about him having them at the weekend. Although when I collected them yesterday morning she was a bit sheepish when I got there and I asked if she was okay, she didn't answer and he said she'd been like that all morning. I think it's starting to be like visiting a relative when she stays with him, not like being with Daddy. So likewise, I'm not sure she'd play up for him as I don't think she feels so secure with him anymore.

A solicitor might help regarding what's fair regarding maintenance.

I'm not sure as I have not divorced, but I know that you can also ask for spousal maintenance for a set period of time. So for example, as you had jointly agreed you'd be off work with DD2, he might reasonably pay extra money during the period until you go back to work.

There's some info here:
www.blbfamilylaw.co.uk/blog/spousal-maintenance-how-much-and-for-how-long/

www.iflg.uk.com/calculators/spousal-maintenance-or-alimony-calculator

One thing I have read regarding child maintenance is that it can help to ask how much he expects to pay and see what he offers. If he just pays what he legally should, it might be less than he'd offer. So perhaps let him suggest a figure and see what it is. Another thing I've noticed is some pay a monthly amount and then split (say 50/50) things like birthday, school uniform, clothes etc on top of that. So I guess it depends what you are comfortable with as well. Going by his flaky behaviour, maybe get the maximum you can per week/month paid directly into your account as he may not be reliable to cough up extra random amounts.

How much he pays is affected by how much he has the girls too, isn't it? So that's even more reason for him to confirm and formalise his contact plan with you. Perhaps that will help you to get that sorted out finally.

Poor DD1, she must be so confused. It's so sad. At her age, expressing herself as well as understanding what's going on is so difficult.

Does she like art or crafts? I wonder if a bit of art therapy might help her. Toddlers can do it and it might help her to express her feelings non-verbally as she's so young. Or if she is into pets/animals then perhaps something along those lines might be useful.

I know it sounds a bit cheesy or new age, but little ones can also do yoga and meditation. Some children find that very helpful. Perhaps you can look into that.

Thanks Waiting. I think I'll look in to art therapy for her. I think it could really help.

I just had that sudden reminder of his message and the fact that he sent something to me that 3 months ago would be perfectly fine to send to me, but now he's sending it to someone else. It's just so odd. How can life change that quickly. How can he have moved on so quickly? I am still entirely baffled by how someone can move from a marriage, a family, straight to something else with someone else. I presume it's a method of avoidance. No need to deal with the real emotions because he's too busy pretending he's someone else.

I really hope he realises how much worse off he is without us and suffers for it. That's horrible, but he deserves to suffer after what he's done.

It is really weird.

Think about the escapism - imagine you feel trapped or like a pressure cooker about to explode. Suddenly you get this chance to have the opposite, to feel free and light and to bathe in the first flush of excitement and happiness that comes with a new relationship. Perhaps that's it.

If it is then it's unrealistic, as eventually the new life will become stale and usual and things won't be all fresh, shiny and exciting.

There may also be cognitive dissonance involved and potentially (depending on when his interest in the OW commenced) a period where you were none the wiser and mentally he was already beginning to check out.

I still can't imagine doing that as I'd need to grieve for my previous relationship before I could start anew. That's why I think it's impossible to understand, as this behaviour is not rational.

The thing is though that when he and his ex broke up, after a four year relationship, it took him about a year to get over it and move on. Yet after 12 years with me, a marriage and two children, he's able to move on, not only with no break, but with an overlap.

In terms of him checking out, I think that started around a month before we separated. But even so, a month shouldn't be long enough to grieve for such a serious relationship. It's very hurtful.

That's what you should say to him op. Maybe that in a txt out of the blue today may jog him to give you a better explanation.

Even if it doesn't, he needs to hear those words.

Xx

Which bit?

Whatever I say to him like that he just responds "I'm sorry". I think he knows that he's meant to feel sorry, but I don't think he feels anything. Not just about me, about anyone or anything. I think he has emotionally shut down. So contacting him about anything emotional doesn't illicit any response from him, believe me, I have tried! And it just leaves me feeling vulnerable.

I'm quite certain that one day his emotions will return and he will suddenly have a "what the fuck have a done?" moment. And I have tried to force that along, not with horrible things, odd little things like "DD2 is standing now" "she said her first word" "DD1 is very emotional and misses you". None of it has any impact. Something one day will. I'm not sure what but it will happen in its own time. I will hold on to the hope that it will because if not he ends up feeling like he's better off without us and everyone can see that that is definitely not the case.

I've had to contact him about the weekend and I actually dread having contact with him now. I think that's probably a positive step for me.

Last night DD1 was horribly upset and distressed again. My Mum suggested I could call him to see if talking to him would calm her down, I immediately said no and that we can't rely on him for anything now. Previously I would have liked the opportunity to be in contact with him for any reason and I still wanted to believe I could rely on him if push came to shove. I just don't think we can now.

I am not surprised you are left feeling vulnerable. I think if you have laid all your cards on the table, there is nothing more you can do on that front. It is also not a good feeling to keep 'exposing' yourself in that way and not getting anything back in return - no reassurance, no connection, nothing. I know how that feels and it chips away at you.

I think you are right about your approach to dealing with DD1. You cannot rely on him and he is the reason you are in this situation. Not actually wanting to contact him is good and massive progress. If he was bothered and/or was actually able to help in that respect, presumably he'd have done so. So the way u interpret it is either he's not bothered or whatever is wrong with him means he cannot fulfill that role right now.

I think and hope it is the latter. But either way, he's pretty useless to me at the moment. I have had to text him about the weekend as he's said he's having them but there are no arrangements in place about times pick ups/drop offs etc. Of course he hasn't responded. Probably another way to try to assert control over me and the situation. But even if he comes back and said he can't have them, I don't think I'm especially bothered. I am for DD1, because she really does love him and miss him, but if that's what he's going to do I'd rather he did it now. I really do feel I've detached from him a bit more over the past week. Of course I still think about him, I'm still hurt, I still long for my old life, but when I think about him as the person he is now I just think "that's not my husband". Like I say, I do dread having contact with him but I'll just communicate as necessary and keep the focus on arrangements for the children, finances and house.

He's let you (and the girls) down so badly that I think in the hurt there comes an anger when you really start to think about it. So that helps. You sound so different, and I mean that in a positive way. Good different!

The whole having to contact him and getting no response is so [insert expletive] annoying. He should be getting in contact with you to tell you the times and ask if that suits you. Argh! I can only imagine how that makes you feel. Does he work in a way that would enable him to commit to a certain pick up time in a formal arrangement?

He still hasn't responded about the arrangements for the weekend. It's really pissed me off. I'm quite certain that he's not responding as he knows it will get to me and it's the only thing he can control now that he sees he can't get a rise out of me after the text the other morning. And it does piss me off but of course I won't let him know that. It's just so bloody frustrating and when he does finally come back to me, there will be no apology for late response or anything, he will just answer the question and if I call him out on his lack of response he will know he got to me, and if I don't he gets away with acting like a dick. But then maybe next time he won't see the point in acting like a dick. Or maybe he just cares so little he can't be bothered to make any arrangements until the very last minute. It's really frustrating because I felt we were making some progress with communicating the other week but now he's being a dick again. He'll communicate with me when he knows I'm not doing so well, but when I'm doing better he's more evasive. I just wish he'd be bloody consistent.

It is very push pull effect - he sends you a dodgy accidental text (pull), which draws you in and you respond, then he does not respond (push) to your contact text, which pushes you away.

Re: contact. If you feel so inclined, I'd perhaps be tempted to reply when he eventually responds, something along the lines of...

Oh sorry, as you haven't responded to me until now, we have made alternative arrangements involving the girls for this weekend. If you are available, they are free on blah day and you could pick them up at blah time and drop them back at blah time on blah day. I shall assume this is convenient for you unless I hear otherwise.

Call his bluff. It is very unreasonable of him not to liaise with you in advance and to keep leaving you hanging. It assumes you have nothing better to do and don't need to make arrangements of your own (socially or otherwise).

The thing is, if I did that it would then be me in the wrong because "you knew I was having them this weekend" and some kind of comment like "I can't be expected to reply to you straight away".

I need to not engage. Not let him know that it gets to me because ultimately I think that's what he wants. I feel like I'm back to where we were two months ago with communication and contact and that just pisses me off after things had got better, but at least now I'm in a better place.

How are things with you Waiting?

Yeah, it makes sense. Although I think it would be very a bit rich of him to say something like that about replying straight away. You aren't expecting straight away, just within 24 hours or so. Also, even if he didn't know exactly, most rational/reasonable people would acknowledge your message and say they'll get back to you in a bit or whatever.

I just love the idea of you calling the shots and putting him in his place. Haha. I don't think it is unreasonable to get on with living your life/planning things like that as you are the primary parent.

I am okay, thank you for asking. I sent my BF an email laying all my cards on the table and now I await his reply. I was incredibly honest with him, which is quite scary. I feel apprehensive but I also know that I needed to do that or I'd regret it. I can feel that I am at a fork in the road. Either I will be going down one side of the fork with him or he will end things and I'll be going down the other side alone. It's up to him now as I have said my piece. I hate this. Waiting yet again! I spend my life waiting for other people to do x, y, z.

How long has he been deciding what he wants? Limbo is awful but it still gives you that bit of hope, although that in itself can make it worse.

I don't feel I ever really laid everything down on the table. I kind of did in dribs and drabs but I kept half writing emails and then not sending them. That's why I debated sending him the link to my threads. But for what purpose? Before I wanted him back, and there's still part of me that does. But I don't know. I suppose I just want him to want me back so then I get to decide. I haven't got to decide anything up to now.

Waiting'a suggested response re the contact is good.And also her advice to just plan stuff for yourself and the girls without waiting round for him... you have to forge your own path now.

And re the text messaging, that's why I think it seems like game playing. If you just wanted to get on with things, even if you weren't especially bothered about seeing your children, you would reply and say "I'm not sure about details yet but I'll let you know ASAP".

The only thing is that for now I need to keep him "on side" or at least not piss him off as I need his agreement about the house stuff. I have drafted a letter to him, I need to get my parents to read it as the proposal involves them and then I will put together a declaration for him to sign saying he agrees to it and then send it to him and await his response. I think I have been fair with what I have suggested, but if he wanted to be a dick for the sake of it he could.

I have also been in touch with my manager about my return to work, so that's a positive step too.

Re: waiting - not that long really. He went back in February and at that point he was in crisis, so I was not expecting a thing. Now he has stabilised, I had an email from him this week indicating he was thinking about what to do. So in reality, I feel as if my actual waiting is probably now really, although I feel as if I have been on pause since he left the country. I didn't mind much until recently as I had so much going on with my work and hospital appointments, as well as family stuff, that it was nice to be able to concentrate on that.

Re: laying it out for your H - my main question would be, would you ever be able to trust him again? If the answer is no, then I guess you would never need to lay it out as you'd not want him back. The only other way it might be good is in a cathartic sense to know that you have told him exactly how you feel and what you think.

I feel as if that's what I did. Telling someone things like that makes you feel so vulnerable because in a way, for me it feels as if I am giving him ammunition with which he could hurt me because he now knows exactly how I feel. Him coming back would be the only positive response to my email.

I have drafted emails and letters and never sent them too. Sometimes just writing it down is my way of coping with the insanity acute feelings and serves its purpose rather than needing to send it.

That is so positive about your work. All these forward steps you are making are like a snowball going down a mountain. The more you are doing them, the more you feel like doing more of them.

It's so hard to judge what to do regards keeping him on your side as I think it's like the ball is in his court. That annoys me for you as he is the one who has left!

I know. That really annoys me. But once the house stuff is sorted, I technically don't "need" anything from him. Sure, it would be nice if he would pay a decent and fair amount towards his children's care, but if he doesn't pay more than CMA then I can still survive off that, I'm not reliant on him. As for his contact with the children, I'm not pushing it anymore. DD1 is my concern, I will reassure her and give her attention and love to make up for what he won't or doesn't provide. Of course DD2 is also my concern but I can pretty much placate her with my breasts! She finds it harder being separated from me so if he doesn't want anything to do with them I don't think she'll really notice the difference, whereas DD1 would. She has stopped asking questions though. It's been a while since she's asked where Daddy is or why he doesn't love me. She will still mention him, she'll say things about we'll go to x place with Mummy, Daddy and DD2. And when she's very upset she'll say "I want my Daddy", but she's generally not mentioning him too much.

Still no response to my text. It's not hard is it. It makes it seem very intentional.

Still no response from him. I feel really irritated by it because at this point I don't know what's happening for the next three days, I don't know if the girls will be here and if they will I'll need to cancel/change some of my plans. After this weekend I'll say that he needs to let me now details at least 24 hours in advance and if I don't hear from him then it will be assumed he's not having them.

Why does he have to be such an utter dick?