Really struggling - rhksmum support thread part II

[madmouse]

still here for you xxx

She CLEARLY has MH issues, if they disagree I'd be complaining - they would have to be completely stupid not to see it.

Thanks for explaining what's happening with her...I hope the appt in December goes well and helps get some support in place.

It's likely that your problems and her problems are intrinsically linked - so it's difficult to solve. You will need to get the right treatment and so will she. Sometimes this works better when you are not living together - just one other option to consider.

You might both do well having some space from each other. Has this been put forward?

Hi rhk,

I hope the December appointment for your daughter gets her the attention she clearly needs. She sounds as if she knows that she has done something stupid, but doesn't know how to speak about it, where to begin or to show weakness. We are not in a position to make a diagnosis of your daughter's mental health, but I think we can all agree she needs help from outside.

Kibbutz I don't agree that rhk is just not dealing with her daughter's outbursts appropriately. If an old lady is attacked by a mugger it seems rather strange to accuse the old lady of merely dealing with the mugger inappropriately, rather than looking at the actions of the mugger as problematic.
I don't think it is helpful to rhk to imply that she should feel she is dealing with things inappropriately when she is doing everything she reasonably can.

rhk I know I haven't walked in your shoes, but I do understand that when you are in the middle of things it is very difficult to look at things from the outside and find the distance to be more removed. You are working through your past bravely and caring for your children as best you can, it is all you can expect from yourself.
I'm getting a bit cross here because I don't want you to feel under attack, we are here to support you.

I am getting a bit cross too... as I said on another thread we all give valid opinions to which we are entitled :)

It's not as simple as an old lady being attacked by a stranger - I think (and I may be wrong) that what Kibbutz is trying to get across is that she found her child's behaviour improved massively when she started behaving differently herself.

Also that this child is not a stranger - she is the child of the oP and obviously reacting to the situation she finds herself in, whether or not the OP can help it.

I agree Rowingboat that RHK cannot currently do any more than she is doing - she is in a very bad state and nobody can change their behaviour just like that - it needs an epiphany of some sort.

But I do not think this is aided by enabling a victim mentality. That's not good for anyone.
Support, yes, but the gently, gently, stroling approach can go on and on and remove all personal responsibility from the unfortunate party - who in the end IS the only one who can make things different for herself and for her daughter.

Does any of that make sense? I've been reading this thread and the other one for months and the OP continues to blame everything and everyone for what's going on - she cannot seem to see herself as anything but a victim, and although her situation is horrifying, she isn't just a victim - and it's damaging to concur with this.

She has the power to do things to help, once she finds a way to do this - but putting it all at the feet of mental health professionals isn't going to get her anywhere, because basically they won't save her. They nevr do - they will do so much and then you're on your own.

The sooner people realise this, the quicker their recovery will be. Though as I said, it can't be forced. And it's unpleasant to realise.

I am very, very sorry for the OP but I won't sit here telling her that yes, everything is conspiring against her, because that's not true and it's not helpful.

I'm not singling you out in any respect Rowingboat, just the general tone of the thread has been like this and it's frustrating to watch.

I'm really sorry if this offends anyone, that's not the intention. But 'support' is not always straightforward.

Thankyou if you have read this, it's not meant as an attack on anyone - that would be pointless. just a viewpoint about helping people...I just want to help.

stroking not stroling

I must add to that that I do nOT believe OP is responsible for her situation. Just that she is the only one who can save it.

And that I am talking from an awful lot of experience with mental health professionals, and mental illness, over a period of around 30 years. Including being a sufferer myself - and realising that nobody was going to step in and save me was the moment I started to recover, from a situation where I was very close to death.

I don't want to hurt or make anyone feel worse, including the people trying so hard here to offer support and being so genuinely kind to the OP. All respect for that.

I'm saying these things because deep down, I believe, I really believe, they are valuable and will do some good. I hope that comes across.

I think you have put into words what I find very difficult because of my own mental/emotional frailty. "Recovering" from mental illness is I believe always a work in progress, as we may always be vulnerable to sliding back down into the darkness. I also believe that a great number of us take things in our lives for granted, and it's only once those things are gone that we truly appreciate them.. for me that includes my physical and emotional health.
For years I blamed everyone else for my situation.. my son, my mother, my son's father.. and I fell deeper and deeper into despair. I got very angry with CAMHS because they weren't "helping" my son with his behavioural problems, and I just couldn't understand why.. I guess I felt as though I'd been abandoned by those who should've been helping.
Then we finally had some joint sessions at CAMHS, just a few. My son was 13 by this point, and very angry and out of control (as I saw it) In the final session much to my bewilderment and frustration the psychologist
said "All of your son's behaviour is attention seeking, look at him... he needs your love, and he needs to feel like you "hear" him" I put my own sadness and "misery at the way life had turned out" before his emotional needs. Much to my dismay the psychologist said that there was nothing wrong with my son that a little attention and love wouldn't cure. Things are far from perfect, but since I changed my behaviour he has been a far happier, more understanding person.
I truly believe that sometimes we need to look past our own needs, because they can turn out to be the very things that keep us "stuck" in a negative cycle.
It is not easy to put these experiences into words that don't sound "preachy".. but please believe me when I say that they are meant in a supportive caring way (although I know I'm not very good at putting that across)x

ps children need/want happy parents to be happy themselves.. if they are surrounded by pain and disharmony they can't thrive x

hi rhk,
I hope you are finding this all helpful and take what you need from it and ignore what you think is unhelpful.
I do agree with Ennis and Kibbutz that it is important to take charge of your own mental health and to be active and participate.
I don't get the impression that you are blaming everyone else for your situation, if anything you seem to take responsibility for everything and don't seem to want to blame others.
Not having been in the system I am a bit in the dark and am very interested in what both Ennis and Kibbutz are sharing.
Ennis and Kibbutz, I think you both feel you are you are getting somewhere even though it does sound a struggle.

Anyway, just wanted to see how you were getting on. You must have some Christmas things coming up at school for your youngest. Is he in a play?

Yes rowingboat, indeed it is a struggle... and one that fortunately you have no first-hand experience of :) Ennis and I only say the things we do, in the hope of making RHKS feel less alone in the darkness, and to try and show her that there are many of us who are also struggling with these horrific life-experiences. I believe that there is light at the end of that dark tunnel, but it is not an easy process to find that light...

Hey RHKS this is still your thread, I know it is difficult right now to post on here but we are still here for you xx

Just want to say that if anything RHKS takes all the blame instead of blaming others as has been suggested. I'm trying hard (and I'm not the only one) to make RHKS see that there is blame that lies squarely with her parents and her ex-h. And that she hasn't somehow caused everybody's problems by simply existing.

I absolutely concur, Madmouse, and that isn't what I was saying - hope that was clear. I don't think she is to blame at all, I just think she is probably her only chance of getting out of the situation.

Thankyou, Rowingboat and Madmouse for being understanding and accepting of what myself and Kibbutz posted. I honestly think all of us want the same thing.

and sorry to talk about RHK as though she wasn't here - that was not the best thing to do, and I hope RHK that you still feel able to post.

'? I've been reading this thread and the other one for months and the OP continues to blame everything and everyone for what's going on'

I should change this, it isn't accurate. I'm sorry. What I meant was that she is waiting for these services and people to help - and my guess is that they won't, byeond a certain point.

Blaming was incorrect and I apologise if it was this comment which came across badly.

I can see that RHKsmum is extremely down on herself - but that's not a good thing either, obviously - it isn't her fault. Of course it isn't.

Sorry - will leave thread now, unless I need to come back and respond to anything directed at me.

good luck.

Hi rhk,
are you around? What are you up to?
Freezing isn't it!

Hi Rowingboat, been really busy and if I'm honest I thought it best I stay away for a wee while.

Have been christmas shopping the past 2 days, not a great success but it's done now, just have to get through the actual day now.

My youngest just has his christmas disco next month and probably a class party but other than that there isnt anything else christmasy thank goodness, think its only the P1-P3 that do the nativity and santa visiting.

Have got psychologist tomorrow and we are supposed to talk about my nightmares but I'm terrified, I know it has to be done but it doesnt stop me being scared :(

Kids have been back to see the curator, and lawyers been on the phone today, everything is up in the air again with my ex, thought he'd been too quiet the past few days now I know why.

How are you getting on?
Is your wee boy getting really excited about christmas?

Hi rhk,
well done on the Christmas shopping! I'm impressed! Now you just have to wrap it all up, or you could leave that until just before you need the presents and have a panic wrap.
I seem to do that quite often. For some reason my parcels are always very messy with huge bits of sellotape all over the place, can't think why!

I can understand why you are frightened of seeing the psychologist, like the dentist, but worse. You know it will help in the long run, but it doesn't make it less scary.
Do you feel a little bit more confident every time you do a scary thing, like see the psychologist? Can you think back to before you saw this psychologist, do you think you have made a bit of progress?

Your ex is such a little sweetheart isn't he! Your children must be getting used to h him by now. He seems to be such a drama queen amongst other things. Doesn't like to go unnoticed! Hope your lawyer does their best for you and deals with this nice and quickly/smoothly.

Do they dress up for the Christmas disco or party or is it just smart?
My friend has two girls at high school and she said there are very few activities for the parents now they are away from Primary school. It seems a pity to go from lots of things to hardly anything.
How is your daughter getting on at school?
Is the new psychological assessment quite soon?

I don't think my DS is very excited about Christmas, too far off! Being six, time means nothing. Since Monday he has been asking me about a birthday party next weekend 'is it today?' He is going to be a shepherd in the nativity. I'm going to sit there and cry.
Better go and do the washing up!

rhks glad you are posting on here again!

I had counselling too this morning - hope yours went ok and that you managed to do a bit of talking about that difficult subject. Mine was a lot better than last week and we are stil talking about finishing at Christmas.

Hope to speak to you later x

I'm useless at wrapping presents, normally I bribe ask my daughter to wrap up the ones for my friends and their kids.
Kids are supposed to be away this weekend so will get theirs wrapped up then.

I think in some ways its getting harder to go see psychologist, I think its because I have told her things I have never told anyone and although deep down I know she will never use it against me or to her advantage I worry.
I do trust her, more I think than I have ever trusted anyone before and that in itself is a scarey feeling.

Todays session started off strange, I told her that I had wrote down bits of my nightmares, she said I was to read it out, I told her I couldn't then went into a full scale panic, if I could have run I would have, but I couldn't get out, couldn't breath, brought up other things that I tried to explain, though not sure how good I was at it, so she read it out.
We didnt really get anywhere, or at least I dont feel I did, she may feel/think differently but I danced about everything, it was like a pick and mix of somethings all thrown in together.

Spoke to lawyer again today, this is starting to feel like July all over again.
My daughter has already asked if she can take some food down to her dads this weekend again incase things get difficult which I have a feeling they will as they have told curator they dont want to go away with him next easter so he will pull the guilt trip on them this weekend.

For the christmas disco they usually dress up, its nice to see them all in there fancy clothes.
My oldest two dont seem to have anything on at highschool christmas wise, they do have some teips with The Young Carers group so thats something.

Thats great your son has a part in the Nativity, I used to love going to that, the kids all looked so innocent and sweet.
The year my youngest did it in nursery, he was Joesph and his 'girlfriend' was Mary, for some reason there was 2 baby Jesus's in the manger and the 2 of them were fighting over who got to tell, then they were lifting the baby by the feet shouting we have an extra Jesus what do we do with him???

Hi rhk,
that sounds stressful at the Psychologist's. Good that you didn't actually run out or explode and managed to calm down. I'm not surprised you found it so difficult to read, it obviously haunts you and has a lot of power over you. I hope this first step will help you to address it more easily next time and the time after that until it is a lot more manageable. It would be great if you could get them in the open and look at them. I hope they lose their power.

What a shame about your daughter asking about taking food. Why does she feel she needs to do that? Does he eat strange food?
I hope this whole issue of her father is addressed before she has to go for a long visit, to help her cope with his stupid behaviour.
It sounds as if she knows what he is like and doesn't expect too much from him.
It is so hard to deal with somebody using emotional blackmail, because you always want to be reasonable and listen to the other person's side of things, but some people take advantage of that reasonableness.

Lol about the extra baby Jesus, I don't remember that in the bible, or did he have a twin? It's funny that your DS had a girlfriend did he always like girls? My DS is just starting to come out of 'no girls!' mode.

She wants to take food down because when she was down in September there was a few problems and she shut herself away in her room for 2 days and never ate apart from some sweets that she had in her bag.

both my sons have always had more female friends than male, I think it was because all my friends had girls so thats what they grew up with. Even now they are both the same. My oldest did get bullied at school for it but the teacher felt it was because the other boys were jealous because he had such a good relationship with the girls and could talk to them.

Not sure how I feel about psychologist right now, feel like all I've done today is switch from one person to the other, trying to work out whats real and whats not, and where I am :(

Hi rhk,
have you changed psychologist? Is that why you feel as if you have switched from one person to another? Sorry I can't remember if you said that earlier!
I would imagine the day after the psychologist is going to be a difficult day, kind of going over what happened and thinking about what surfaced.

Do you think your daughter is planning another weekend in her room, but with more food, or it is just a contingency plan?
Do you think she is too afraid to say she just doesn't want to go?

Sorry not very good at explaining myself, its the same psychologist but I seem to split in there.

Not sure what my daughter is planning, I think she is just worried that if things get difficult when shes down there if she stays in her room she at least will have something to eat because she wont come out til its time to come home to me.

I do wonder if she wants to go but is scared to say she doesnt, especially after what happened in July and the way he treats them if they dare say no to him. She is a people pleaser and will do and say what ever she thinks you want to hear.
She is beginning to see him for what he is, but I think there is stil a small part of her that gives him the benefit of the doubt.
Guess I will find out on Sunday whats happened.

Hi rhk,
can you explain about the splitting thing? Are you behaving differently when you are in the psychologist's office to the way you are generally?
Sorry, just trying to understand.

I reckon your daughter will get fed-up with him soon. He is really pushing things with them.

I dont really know much about the splitting, it feels like there is a few of me, the wee me, the me that can talk when I'm allowed and the one that shuts us all up, if that makes sense.

Kids have gone now, my son was distaught, feeling sick, had an upset tummy and was really upset before he went. My daughter was sitting on the bus coming back from the town and asked me if it was ok to say a bad word? I said no its not, sher said ok I'll just say this once and then I wont say it again, my dads an arse , I did tell her it wasn't nice to say that about her dad (even though it's true) she said I'm not lying mum he is.
When I took them out to the car I said to my ex that my son wasn't feeling well and to just keep an eye on him. As per usual he ignored me, my son said to him as well and he ignored him to and I'm ashamed to say I lost it and shouted well I hope he's sick all over your precious car, gave the kids a kiss and he drove off.

I'm so sick of this, he makes me so mad, wtf is so hard about acknowledgeing that I've spoke, that his son is nervous and worried about going.

rowingboat does it help if I explain the splitting in general terms? Because I do it too, but differently.

It's about dissociation - separating part of you from another part. On the 'healthy' end of the scale we all do it, like driving somewhere familiar and not really remembering how you got there - the other extreme is opening your wardrobe and not recognising the clothes in there because 'someone' else bought them.

I used to split my feelings from my thoughts (ie i had no or very few feelings) and I still split my body from my mind (ie I'm often not reall in my body especially when stressed/triggered by something). RHKS describes splitting into different 'persons', generally a sign of severe abuse at a young age.

It is a defence mechanism against the pain of abuse. A way of escaping from it. Leaving your body or leaving part of yourself.

I hope this helps a bit.

And RHKS you did well today - quite how you brought yourself to say she shouldn't talk like that about her dad is beyond me because it is so true. Counting the hours with you until they are back xx