Lelarose Desperately Depressed #2

[thatsnotmymonkey]

Hi Lela, I hope this is OK, come over here. We will all be here for you. xx

Hi Lela, haven't posted for a while as I'm back at work and can't MN as much as I'd like all day long anymore.

Your list of positives was brilliant and you do sound a million times better than the really bad old days. I know it's still tough, but you really are very very strong, and sounding stronger by the day. I don't know if you ever look back at the old thread - I think it shows that you have come miles and miles, so well done you.

I'd love to hear more about your little one, he sounds gorgeous. And, always, more about you.

My position with my DH is quite the opposite of yours - he was the one suffering from post-natal depression. So I can comment from the point of view of the partner to someone who is down and wanted to say that sometimes I did just vent and let go of the frustration I was feeling at DH when I just wanted to flip a switch and make him happy (although I knew it wasn't as simple as that). It didn't mean for a second that I didn't love him, or wasn't going to be there for him. Not for a heartbeat. I was just tired and needed from time to time to get things off my chest even though I completely understood that it wasn't his fault and that it wasn't helpful for me to yell and scream and tell him to get himself together (and other unhelpful stuff). I feel very bad about this now.

Just wanted to let you know that because I'm sure your DP loves you and your DS to bits and wouldn't want you to take it to heart if he does have a moan from time to time.

My DH is a bit of an extreme example but it really did take him a while to adjust to life with our DS. The spotlight was so much on me during and immediately after the pregnancy that it never occurred to me (until he crashed) that he needed a chance to get his head around the ways in which our life had changed. He was quite shocked by the labour and found that very difficult and then (depression aside) was obviously tired when he went back to work from juggling a newborn and his job.

I remember reading plenty of other threads in which MNers expressed concern/disappointment that their partners weren't as happy as they wanted them to be after the babies' arrival and loads of advice to the effect that lots of blokes go through a "flat" phase before the babies become a bit more fun.

I say this not to make you worry about him (do please keep looking after yourself), but to reassure you that there's probably not much more to your DP's mood than the usual new-father shock/tiredness and I agree with the others that he is probably missing you both and wants to be part of the family bubble.

Oh, and DH's relationship with DS turned around completely when DS was about 3-4 months and becoming really interactive and now the two of them are completely in love and inseparable.

hey lela,

I am having a bit of a crappy time at the mo, and did not want to bring my negativity to your thread.

Just wanted to check in and let you know I am always thinking of you, and think you are amazing.

How old is your son now?

Hope the headaches are staying away. x

My DH underestimated how much work was involved with a new baby and I think that is typical, although you might find not everyone wants to admit in RL that things are not rosy at home. I think the dads find it hard until you start getting more back from baby i.e. when they do more - smile, laugh. Well, a lot of us do but the mums just get on with it because they have to. The dads do get better, and despite how it seemed to me at times when we talked about things properly he would have been devastated to lose me or DS out of his life, I'm sure it's the same for your DP.

thatsnotmymonkey please use this thread or pm me if you want to talk about anything, it would not be any imposition whatsoever, and I meant what I said in the past about being here if ever you need anything. Hope you are ok. Ds is 5 weeks now.

Well, found out last night what is bothering dp. He has been delayed getting back form work and we were talking on the phone and I started crying because I'm so paranoid he regrets having ds with me. He says its not that, its that he hates living where we do and although he can see why I need to be here right now he really wants to move back to the country.

The background to this is that we were not living together full time before I got pregnant- he lived about a 2 hour drive away in the sticks and I am in the city. We used to divide our time between the 2 places and to be fair he did say he never wanted to live in the city full time. However I always knew I would not cope moving to the country when I had the baby as I knew no one and would have to drive even to get to the nearest shop. I have lived in cities all my life and get kind of claustrophobic in small towns, plus would be totally isolated. Also I had jobs here to think about which I couldn't just walk out of and here I have friends and my sister who is my only family. So he moved here.

I have everything I need on my doorstep and my psychological services and mother and baby group etc. The last 5 weeks when I've not been able to drive after c section and have been alone for a good part of that with the baby I have appreciated where I live so much, I love it here. But I understand why dp doesn't, he has been in the country all his life and is a fish out of water here. I cant be happy unless he is, and dont want to be totally selfish. He says when he hears how I am coping better than expected he is pleased but also realises how much of that is due to living here and this upsets him as he is desperate to move, but he worries for my mental health if we do. I have told him I will in the past as I feel I owe him so much and want him to be happy, plus it might be good for my son to grow up in a more rural environment.

I get how he is feeling, and I want to make him happier, but the truth is I wish he could have just forgot about this for a bit while i am still finding my way as a mother. He gave me a terrible time about it when I was first pregnant and it nearly split us up. This is a big part of why I feel so shit about getting pregnant before he was ready to, but then I didnt have all the time in the world, and thank god I'm not out in the country on my own with ds while dp is away all the time. Also, he is 100% correct about my mental health- moving away right now would be terrble for me getting anxious and depressed just as I am trying to recover from how bad I was when pregnant.

Sorry for the length of this post, just needed to offload. I just cant contemplate moving anywhere in the near future not only for my mental health but for when I need to go back to work for at least a short while to justify my maternity pay, but it feels so awful that he is not happy here. Just as I was getting better as well, wish he could just accept we need to stay here for now (only bloody 5 weeks into ds's life) and try and make the most of it and not make me feel shit about it.

Hi Lela

I agree that it would be utterly daft for you to move now, your support network is crucial and for the moment there would be no benefit at all for your DS to living in the country - in fact the opposite is probably true in that he gets to go to baby groups and is his mum is happier.

That said, I'm sure that there must be a compromise to be struck here. A couple of suggestions:

(a) let your DP scratch his country itch on a weekend and his days off. Whenever it's a nice day, get your baby-carrier/rucksack and head out to somewhere green for a big walk. Plan ahead so that your DP can look forward to getting out of town when it's getting to him; and

(b) don't shut down the possibility of a move to the country when the time is right - actually I'm sure you aren't doing this but your DP might think that you are. Ok it's not going to work right now but you might feel differently in the future. Without committing yourself you can say to your DP that you will genuinely look at this when, say, you've been back at work for a while. And in the meantime you can give your DP the job of thinking of nice places he might like to live where you wouldn't be isolated. There's country and there's country - his compromise might be to consider living in suburbia where you could be near a town with shops, cafes and baby groups but also have the countryside on your doorstep. Give him a project - this works with my DH and can change the focus of a conversation from moanyness to pro-activity.

Look at me lecturing like I have it all sorted - honestly I don't. Feel free to ignore me if you're sick of all the know it all advice!

Huge un-MN hugs

Thanks for your reply. You are right, and I've always said I would move, as I feel I owe it to him. Just the thought of it makes me ill, and it feels horrible him not being happy here.

The compromise/suburbia thing is what everyone says, but dp says what's the point of us moving somewhere where neither of us knows anyone? and he wants to be near his parents, which i feel will be good for my son as he will have little or no contact with my mother.

anyway, i just really need and want a break from feeling anxios and pressurised. Dp thinks I'm just magically alright now- he doesnt see why I'm still seeing the psychologist. Yes i am coping better than I thought and am very grateful for this, but what he doesnt understand is that its arecovery process. I still have huge and very painful issues around how much I wanted ds to be a daughter and my guilt over that, and am trying to regain my self esteem after reaching rock bottom during pregnancy. I feel really vulnerable and insecure in my relationship as dp has seen me at my worst and I just need time and space to build myself up again somehow. I wish he could see this and just accept where we are for now.

It hurts because he said the other night that what used to get him through working away was the thought of getting home to the countryside where he was. I wish he was getting through it now by looking forward to coming home to his partner and new baby son, but maybe I dont deserve that.

Hey Lela,

Of course you want a break from the anxiety. And you absolutely deserve one (and a very very long one at that!). And I completely agree that you should take time for yourself to recover - you went through a hell of a lot and anyone in your shoes would be be mentally and emotionally drained from the experience.

Sounds like your DP's views are a bit entrenched. It wouldn't do it any harm now to investigate, would it? And unless his parents live in the Shetland Islands, there must be somewhere where they are within a shortish drive and you'd be able to make new friends? Not that you need to even think about it yourself now, but if he wants to talk about it he needs to find a constructive way of dealing with it - ideally behind the scenes without pestering you.

I bet your DP loves coming home to you and your DS. What he said about looking forward to living in the countryside was insensitive though. He's a bit of a twazzock for that but I don't think you should equate that with him not looking forward to being with you and his new baby and please please don't take the leap to thinking that you don't deserve that. What I think he might mean is that, however wonderful you and your DS are, it doesn't remove the fact that he's had a crappy day at work, he was stuck in an air-conditioned box, the tube was smelly and disgusting, and he thinks that living in the countryside would make those bits of his life better.

I know what you mean though. For me - and I didn't suffer like you - going through the pregnancy, birth and the first few weeks was such a huge deal, I felt sort of cheated when DH's life plodded along as normal and he'd come home and moan about work. I wanted him to be proud and happy the whole time, it was part of my vision of life with a baby. And then he got depression and I thought, hand on, that wasn't the deal. I'm doing the hard stuff and the least you can do is walk round with a permanent grin on your face like new dads are supposed to. Sorry, can't put it into words exactly. I was disappointed though.

But I can say that as I got used to being at home and the newness and scariness wore off, we struck a balance and for both of us now I know that life carries on but we've got this little creature who makes life much, much better but can't solve everything. I think partly that it's a hormonal discrepancy between men and women - I felt love for my DS but pretty much every other emotion so keenly after birth but DH's world view was rather less intense, a bit too rational for my liking. A year later (even a few weeks later) the hormones have gone, as has his depression, and we are singing from the same hymn sheet.

Rambling now. Anyhow, I'm sure that he loves you both an enormous amount but it sounds as though he's got a classic dose of male insensitivity. Give him a kick, but don't take it to heart sweetheart.

Thanks, you are right, he is just being insensitive and men don't understand the enormity of having a baby or get so much out of the experience (good or bad) at this stage of the baby's development I dont think.

On the upside, when I look back at where I was before the birth (cant quite bring myself to read old thread as very painful, but I know how bad I was) I am just immensely grateful that at least I am better now. Just for today I dont feel suicidal and I'm managing to care for my wee son alone in my own home-we're on our 3rd week alone now (nothing compared to some people's situations I know).

It sounds so corny but this tiny boy makes me want to be a better person. I just need a bit of support to keep all the bad thoughts at bay.

Thanks for keeping in touch. It does help.

Been following still Lela. So nice to hear you are feeling better than you did before the birth and that you are coping.

I'm sure, with time you'll make sense of the 'bad thoughts' and that they'll eventually drift away.

Just a thought for the future, have you tried an online cbt program called 'Mood Gym'? I did it as part of a study through the nhs for Warwick uni. I found it really interesting and helpful. It's for people with depression/anxiety issues but I did it when only feeling a little anxious (even though I've had pnd on the past) and got a huge amount from it.

It's free and annonimous, you can use a pretend name etc. Maybe worth a shot.

Lela if your dp is such a countryboy he probably has dreams of ds growing up in the country side, of showing him everything and being out and about with him lots. I can sympathise with him although you moving right now is out of the question!

I am a country girl and I've been married to a city boy for over 12 years now and it's fine. he's the vicar so his job dictates where we live and his caling is to city and town work. But honestly living towards the edge of a city or town is not so bad - it is usually possible to walk into the country side from where we live and I get my fix. I'm sure the two of you will manage to compromise later on when you are more stable.

There is also a huge variation of villages and towns. The choice is not between a city or a tiny clique village with a postoffice and nowth else and smaller places often have good family services and a great sense of community

Hi Lela - how are you doing in this snowy weather

Hey Lela, still checking in here too and hoping that you are quiet because things are going well. Always here no matter what.

hi there i'm having a shit time-nothing to do with weather- i love snow but cant get out the house much due to constant breastfeeding. dp was here for just 4 nights and has gone again today for another 2 weeks and when he was here everything kind of crumbled a bit and its really got me down again.

I've not been posting as feel as if there are ppl having a much harder time than me out there. I'm not being a martyr just when I think of how suicidal I was when pregnant everything now just seems like self indulgent whining really.

anyway thanks for thinking of me. hope you are all well x

Hi Lela - hopefully everything will come together soon with the BF - DD seemed to switch from 40 minutes feeds to 5 minute feeds overnight & suddenly I had some freedom (of course it scared the shit out of me & made me think there was something horribly wrong but that's another story - born worrier here). She just got super-super-efficient at draining the breast. The growth spurts come thick & fast in the first few weeks & its all a bit pants really - do you think this is what is happening with your son? BF whilst out & about - I got better at it with time. I'd use a muslin. I'd wrap one corner under & around the shoulder strap on my bra to secure it, and then drape it over her head once she was latched on OK. All very discreet & the muslins are so light baby won't suffocate or get too hot & bothered. We're pretty lucky locally for nursing rooms as well - 2 or 3 in each local shopping centre, with nice glider-chairs & water machines. Do you have anything similar around & about? Our local health authority run a BF-friendly scheme so you can look for the stickers on the doors when you go into cafe etc. Our nearest Costa Coffee is the most fab BF-friendly place. The staff can't do enough TBH. These were the places I first ventured out to, knowing that I could feed the baby in peace should I need to. I found the more I went out, the less she needed feeding really - dunno what that was all about - maybe it was because she slept better being trundled around in the pram, or the shops & lights & noise distracted her. Not sure really.

Is everything OK with DP? Did him being around just mess with your routines & stuff? Hope you're OK xx

Lelarose we all have our own issues and that's why there is space for all of us to post here and get support. So please keep writing if it helps you x

thanks madmouse. jetli-thanks I really appreciate your advice. The thing is, I am happy to breastfeed anywhere in public I'm not at all self concious about it, the problem is getting myself orgsanised to leave the house when he is crying all the time and the only way to calm him down is to sit down and feed him.

After 3 weeks of great sleeping, which helped me to cope alone immensely, as soon as dp came home it all went to shit and ds was awake several times anight and I turned into a shambolic, tearful, paranoid wreck. I feel so pathetic complaining about that I mean for gods sake hes a tiny baby thats what they do and if I cant cope with no sleep too bad all mothers have to go through this. I just felt so upset as wanted him to see me doing well and coping for once. It just affects my mental health and relationshp so dramatically, but again other people have the same problems and just get on with it.

when i'm sleep deprived all my bad thoughts come in and the wishing he was a girl starts and it shames me so much that i can still feel like that now he is here it makes me hate myself.

Hi Lela,

Sorry I haven't posted for a while - I kind of drift off MN (NOT this thread) when it all feels a bit noisy for me. I think it may be oddly normal for things to fall apart a bit when dp is with you - bear with me while I try to think this through. I think it's easier to cope when you know you don't have any choice - the option of handing it all over or leaning on someone else is gone, so you just get on with it. I'm a better and more attentive driver when dh isn't in the car, for example, and I find myself a less competent parent when he's around sometimes, just because I feel like I don't have to be in control, so I let go.

You and wee ds have got yourselves into a pattern, but it's still a bit new and fragile and easily bumped, so dp being home will have messed with it a bit - it's normal - a PITA, but normal. This is still all so new, you know, what you're experiencing and feeling isn't needy or pathetic (at least no more so than pretty much every new mother there's ever been).

As for dp and the country - well, he's a big boy and will cope. Leave the door open to a move when ds is a bit bigger (ie at least a year), when you've got more of a handle on this whole motherhood lark.

Sleep deprivation brings out the worst, just the absolute worst pits nasty baseness in people. They use it as torture for a reason. I've called my beloved and much wanted ds every foul name under the sun in the depths of sleep deprivation. At the time I feel just crap, but I know that's not really who I am or how I feel. You know you love your ds, and you are doing so much better than expected (hope you don't mind me saying that, but I'm just so impressed).

Look, the first year is hard and it does put a strain on relationships. tell dp this. tell him to post on here if it helps - loads of people will tell him that you are pretty damn normal.

And that is why you need to keep posting - because we already know what dark thoughts creep into your head and we know you struggle with wishing for a girl. So you can be open and get it out of your system. Don't let it creep back into secrecy.

We also probably all know that sleep deprivation brings out the worst in you, don't beat yourself up about it x

I'm sitting here looking at my son. He's so incredibly beautiful and innocent and I want him to have the happiest most secure childhood I can possibly give him. I love him and I know he is more important than me now and whatever happens I have to put him first and put my own feelings aside.

I never took having a child for granted for one second- I thought I never could.

I'm so so lucky to have him.

So why, why, why can't I come to terms with the fact that he wasnt a daughter? It pains and embarasses me so much that I am still talking about this, I'm so ashamed.

I just cant get past this. As much as I adore him as a baby, I dread the future bringing up a boy, and always feeling the lack of a daughter in my life.

I hate myself and I need this to end. I thought it would when he was born but its still there. Am so jealous of anyone I even see in the street who has a girl I cant stand that I feel like this, it kills me.

Sorry I just have to admit this somewhere.

Lelarose - there's only one thing for it - bring your beautiful boy up one day at a time. Change with him, see him grow up - it happens slowly, he doesn't turn into a 10 year old overnight.

So keep taking it one day at a time and give it all a chance. You may always feel a longing for a girl but I believe that in time that will become separated from your feelings for your son - all the signs are there.

thanks madmouse, thats what I'm trying to do, this is just cracking me up x

Hi Lela

I have not posted on your thread before - but have followed it.

A lot of what you have said reminded me of me after my DD (second child) was born.

I had a DS and whilst Motherhood wasn't a breeze, my relationship with him was fine.
I then had my second DC. A daughter this time, and my world crashed down.

She just didn't feel like mine. I loved her, but she just wasn't the child I was supposed to have. Some days were OK and then I would see a baby that 'looked' more like mine and the feelings would resurface again.

It was a long, slow process getting better. I sought help and saw a therapist that helped me bond with her.

I am not sure if I can say anything that is of any use to you, but your above post struck me.

"So why, why, why can't I come to terms with the fact that he wasnt a daughter? It pains and embarasses me so much that I am still talking about this, I'm so ashamed."

It used to hit me like a lorry sometimes. I loved her but just wished she could be a little bit different.

I love my daughter so very much. But she is not the child I expected to have and she never will be.

But the pain is not there anymore. Grief maybe?

Give yourself some time. You are still grieving for the daughter you wanted.

It will get there. You love him.

Thank you all.

PrinceRogersNelson that must have taken a lot for you to post, thank you. I am having therapy too but my psychologist is off sick right now.

Hi beertricks- I cant really explain what I dread about having a boy, I've just never been interested in male children and dont know how I will summon the enthusiasm for the kind of stuff they are into (I will of cours, I will fake it for him). I don't get boys, I dont understand them like I do girls, I cant realte to them. I think its more really what I feel I am missing out on with a daughter, like genuinely enjoying doing all the little girl stuff and the little girl toys, going shopping together and having girly days out as adults, etc. Helping her through all the teenage stuff and being there for her when she has babies etc. I would love it, just love it.

I do know not all mother daughter relationships are like that, but at least I'd have been in with a chance.

I would have exactly the same baby, just female if that makes sense. I would be a better mother to a girl.

Have to go, he's crying.