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Lelarose Desperately Depressed #2

995 replies

thatsnotmymonkey · 13/09/2010 23:02

Hi Lela, I hope this is OK, come over here. We will all be here for you. xx

OP posts:
tiredlady · 14/11/2010 21:50

Lela,
Your little boy sounds very normal. Al mine ever did at that age was eat, sleep and whinge.
With my first I just had him in my arms for months. With my other 2 I had them in a sling, to free up my hands to deal wth ds1.

Sleep deprivation is a total bugger and I suggest getting through it any way you can, be that dummies, co sleeping, night time bottles whatever.

I think given everything you have been through you are doing amazingly well.

Habbibu · 15/11/2010 09:45

If he's crying between feeds, try carrying him in a sling for a bit, and also see if you can get a little rocking seat - you can get ones with batteries that rock automatically - some babies find this soothing. You're doing all the right things, and he sounds utterly normal. You are also sounding very normal - just like we all felt at that stage, and no more neurotic than anyone else. You really are doing fantastically well.

And yy to 8 hours. Can you get him to have a word with ds?

thatsnotmymonkey · 15/11/2010 12:04

I think c-section babies can be extra windy and need a bit more winding and holding than non c-section babies IME. I think not being squished out through the birth canal can leave them a bit gunked up. Is he quite squirmy after a feed and grunty? Is he pulling his legs up?

Try a putting a pillow underneath him to feed on, so he is as straight as possible and after the feed, leave him there for a while- 10-20mins. Rub his tummy gently.

Then try and wind, hold him upright and quite firmly against your shoulder and rub down the left side of his back, round and up to the right.

Sorry if I sound bossy, but I remember being a new mummy and wanting to know EXACTLY what to try!

OP posts:
pumpkinmouse · 15/11/2010 16:06

Try not to feel under pressure to do interaction and developmental play all day long. I'm sure whatever chattering and cuddling you're doing is plenty. Permit yourself some time to do zero.

Actually, just resting is one of your most important jobs of the day for the time being. I found that difficult to remember.

I felt crap because DS didn't look like he was smiling at all to me for ages, I really couldn't tell. His first laugh was absolute magic, there was no mistaking it. He is the jolliest boy now at nearly two, and has been from as soon as he started to get a bit of control of his movements. Secretly I love that glint in his eye when he knows he is about to be naughty. He knows when he is being cute and funny as well - just you wait - that boy is going to make laugh till you hurt.

Happy for you.

Habbibu · 16/11/2010 14:35

Hi lela. Just checking in to say hi. Hope things are going ok, and that ds is settling down again.

lelarose · 16/11/2010 15:22

struggling today. he has been attached to my breasts for several hours, screams if i take him off even tho hes stopped sucking properly. feel trapped and lonely and had a freak out about him being a boy again the other night. could just break down, have terrible thoughts that i shouldnt even have had him as apart from anything else dp sounds so stressed and unhappy when he calls and i feel i've ruined everything with my obsession with my fertility.

this baby cant be awake without my breast or a dummy in his mouth or he screams. it doesnt seem to be wind he just has to suck constantly so i can barely move all day. please please no lectures/disapproval about dummies.

i cant get this depressed again i cant put my relationship through any more or affect my child with it. only yesterday cpn was here and said she thought i was fine and would be telling psychiatrist i was. but inside i'm not today, not at all.

JetLi · 16/11/2010 15:42

Hi Lela - can you call the CPN again & have another chat with her? She can't just dismiss you like this - it's important that she see's thereality of your siutation. These first few weeks are really, really rough. I almost went back to work after 6 weeks I was that fed up with it all Sad. I too had a "sucky" baby. We had a short holiday when she was about 5 weeks old & then DP got to see the reality that she was nailed to my boob for hours on end & I got a bit more sympathy after that. Have you a Surestart place locally? Our local ones all do baby massage which was a nice break for a couple of hours. Have you got a sling you could try as well so that baby is held close, but at least it leaves your arms free?
Thinking of you xx

Habbibu · 16/11/2010 16:04

No disapproval at all about dummies, believe me. If I thought for a second it'd get ds to sleep, I'd use one. Agree with Jet - you don't need to be battling this all by yourself. Call CPN, be as frank as you can be about how you're feeling. You know you can open up - you've done it so well here - please be honest to hcps about how you are. She caught you on a good day, but she should know there'll be bad ones as well.

Does ds settle with a dummy? Then use one whenever you need to. There's nothing he can't be weaned off much much much later, ok? Also see if you can get hold of an electric swing/chair thing.

The boy thing was never going to disappear overnight - it's bound to take time and thought, and you just don't have the mental or physical energy to work it through atm.

You love this boy, but you are not the first person to think that you have done something mad to have a baby, esp in the early weeks, Even without PND that's a pretty common thought. As is the stress on the relationship. The early weeks are hard. But they do get better. Please try and get the help you need and deserve - don't feel that you need to put on a front and show you're coping; be as honest as you are with us.

QuickLookBusy · 16/11/2010 16:15

Do not worry about a dummy.

I gave my first child a dummy at 3 weeks as she too wanted to suck all the time. I hated giving it to her at first, felt a failure but it was a godsend. She really started to settle much better.
She kept her dummy till she was 3, just at sleep times. Then we sent it to father christmas, so he could give it to another baby!

DC2 sucked her thumb. I thought "how lovely"
But she still sucks it now, she is 16! She is constantly getting throat infections and she needed a brace because her thumb made her teeth wonky. A dummy is much better for them. Ask any dentistGrin

lelarose · 16/11/2010 16:41

Thanks so much, i have calmed down a bit now as health visitor was round just now and she said some babies just need to suck all the time and using a dummy is better for my mental health than not so I shouldnt worry.

quicklookbusy I was just saying to the hv that I'd rather he used a dummy than his thumb because at least a dummy can be got rid of in time, and (cant believe I'm admitting this but hey ho you have all heard worse from me) I was sucking my thumb well into adulthood and still find myself doing it in my sleep to this day (thats terrible isnt it).

Anyway the other reason he needs to feed so much she says is becasue hes missing feeds in the night because you wont believe this but hes slept 8 hours the last 3 nights. I know, I know, this means I have a bloody cheek to complain about anything else and please believe me I know how incredibly lucky this makes me and I dont take it for granted as I am a nightmare without my sleep I tell him every morning how wonderful he is for managing to sleep that long.

I'm going to take him out a wee walk now as hes off crying again and while I'm out I'm going to make a list in my head of all my positives because I'm not going right back down again without a fight, for his sake if nothing else.

Thanks all for replying xxx

BeerTricksPotter · 16/11/2010 16:47

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

QuickLookBusy · 16/11/2010 16:52

Lelarose thankyou for telling me that. Its a relief that my DD isnt the only one!!

You are doing so well, what a good idea to make a list of positives! Its is so so hard the first few months, but I and everyone else will tell you, it does get easier. Just you wait till he starts to smile (will be a few weeks yet) but it is so wonderful, it makes all the hard work worth it.

FortunateHamster · 16/11/2010 17:46

I'd love it if my baby would have a dummy but he just spits them out with a disgusted look on his face! But seriously I'm pretty sure most people say it's fine to use dummies now. It needn't be forever and you can wean him off one later.

It is hard work having a sucky baby. I have one and still feed him every two hours most days, and of course in the early days it'd be non-stop in the evenings. Similarly I had quite good nights and I think you do pay for that in the day with lots of feeding. Just tell yourself you'd rather have some peace at night (even if you can't quite convince yourself!).

I used to try and set things up so I had coping mechanisms for while he fed, but you have to find what works for you. I like watching long tv series, so got my Sky+ to series link a few things so I could always watch them while he fed. I also tried to make sure I had a netbook and/or phone near me, a book, snacks and water. That way I could happily stay on the couch for an hour or so without feeling quite so trapped.

thatsnotmymonkey · 16/11/2010 18:20

Oh god, I would have masking taped a dummy to my DS if I thought I would get away with it!

Glad it has gotten a bit better for you.

afI know you feel like a prisoner when it is just you and the baby, sucking all day. can anyone come and visit you, to break the day up? How about venturing out to a baby group?

OP posts:
Habbibu · 16/11/2010 19:43

One of dh's best friends sucks his thumb quite a lot, in company. I'm so used to it I don't think about it, and he's a lovely chap, so I really find it quite endearing. You do set awfully high standards for yourself, lela - you're really not terrible in the slightest, in fact you seem quite wonderful.

pumpkinmouse · 16/11/2010 20:24

Give him a dummy, I say. I dithered and swithered about this for ages and when I did give him one I wondered why I hadn't done it earlier. Yeah, he is going to feed loads during the day if he sleeps all night, but it will ease off as he gets older.

If there is a Surestart near you I recommend going along. We don't have a centre, but they have sessions in community centres and church halls. It is company and breaks the day up at worst and at best they have been a life saver to me. The staff were really supportive, great to talk to, just chatting helps get things in perspective, and chatting to other mums of babies helps you see how normal it all is, sometimes they suggest something that works for you, you can have a laugh about the little disasters and mistakes along the way. Highly recommended.

So: dummies and Surestart.

lelarose · 16/11/2010 20:58

I dont know how you can say that habbibu- I'm such a selfish mess.

Dp didnt want a baby for another year or so as we had only been together for a year but I was so paranoid about my fertility I did nothing to prevent it as I thought it would take years if it ever happened at all. So it was all my responsibility, and once I got what I supposedly wanted I freaked out and got in such a mess when pregnant. I still cant live with this burden.

Even now my son is here I dont know if I did the right thing- this is the beginning of a life that I brought into the world and I'm having thoughts like that and it just appalls me.

When I was a little girl I coped with my horrible dysfunctional life by fantasising about the happy, "normal" family that I was going to have one day. Its all I ever wanted, I was never interested in careers etc, I just wanted to be part of a loving family. By the time I met dp I had been let down so many times due to the bad choices I made with men, so once I found him in my mid 30s I just wanted it to work out so badly, but I was also prepared to be a single parent rather than have no children ever.

I know I'm jumping from one anxiety to another on this, but its this sense of total responsibility that really makes me ill and there is no one in rl I can tell this too. I think apart from the gender thing this has been the main problem with me from the very start.

Please dont judge me, I'm not a bad person and dp did want a baby with me, just not as soon as it happened. I thought being a mother was my ultimate calling in life and it breaks my heart if I was wrong and I might fuck things up for my little boy. Sorry to go on and on you have all been so kind and I'm probably not even making sense any more.

I'm scared to post this but I need to get this out of my head as its destroying me.

madmouse · 16/11/2010 21:16

Lela I have just read your post and the only thing that will come into my head is 'what is so bad about what you have done? what is such a crime that you need to punish yourself so hard?'

It's nowhere near the horrible thing you imagine it to be. You've had a baby with a lovely partner, and no it won't be ike the romantic dream you had, because that's the problem with romantic dreams, but the potential is there for it to be really really good.

Habbibu · 16/11/2010 21:17

Lela, no-one, no-one thinks you're a bad person. We've been with you right through all this, heard these dark thoughts and no-one has felt that you should be judged. Now, we've got no vested interest in you - we could disappear off and no-one would be any the wiser. But people are here because there's something so evidently good and worthwhile and strong in you.

I'm not posting on and sticking on this thread out of some sense of duty or pity - I'm not at all that altruistic and am v lazy. But I like this thread, although I know it's painful for you - you are very likeable, interesting, strong, brave and inspirational. I have no reason at all to say that other than the fact I happen to believe it.

You are making sense, lots of it. Being loved and being in a family is so important, and being deprived of that as a child must make you crave it desperately. And I also see that as you're a woman, your desire to "re-create" a family for a girl must be/have been incredibly strong. It makes a lot of very painful sense.

And dp can not have been too concerned about having a baby - it was within his power to prevent it as well, you know. For all it is tremendously hard right now, as you get to know and love your son even more you'll realise that no matter what you don't want things to be otherwise, you don't want him not to be there because he is a fundamental part of your life.

And I genuinely believe that this boy will help you redraw your image of a loving family in more wonderful ways than you can imagine right now - when he really starts to interact with you, when he smiles, when he holds his arms up when he sees you, when he squirms to get out of someone's arms into yours - all this is transformative and amazing on a daily basis.

I think you do have a natural and strong maternal instinct, which at times overrides your own self-preservation instincts; you're breastfeeding when many would consider that too hard and stressful, you're concerned over things like using a dummy, like stressing your baby - all your posts speak of a fundamental love and concern for your son, even when you're awash with sadness and stress.

You aren't going to get through all this straight away. You don't have to. At this age your son needs a clean bottom, food, cuddles and sleep. That's it. And he's getting that. So all he knows is that he's safe, he's with his mother and he knows you, he knows your smell and your taste and that's all he wants. The pieces of the picture you're all going to draw together will come together, bit by bit, and you'll grow in confidence as a mother, you'll start to forgive yourself.

I've just remembered a poem you might like - it;s not entirely relevant, but some lines may strike a chord, and be a good mantra for darker days:

The time will come
when, with elation
you will greet yourself arriving
at your own door, in your own mirror
and each will smile at the other's welcome,

and say, sit here. Eat.
You will love again the stranger who was your self.
Give wine. Give bread. Give back your heart
to itself, to the stranger who has loved you

all your life, whom you ignored
for another, who knows you by heart.
Take down the love letters from the bookshelf,

the photographs, the desperate notes,
peel your own image from the mirror.
Sit. Feast on your life.

lelarose · 17/11/2010 09:23

Thank you both. habbibu your post made me cry. I cant believe you think so hightly of me after how I have been.

I have a friend who like me had a difficult childhood and we both have what we describe as an overdeveloped sense of responsibility at the best of times. I think this comes from growing up in a household where you knew the adults were not in control- to me every little child needs the security of thinking the grown ups will make things ok and I never had that so anything that goes wrong around me I tend to blame myself.

My partner has sacrificed a lot because of me getting pregnant when I did and I find this extremely hard to deal with considering how terribly pregnancy affected me. It sounds really wet but I cant be happy unless I feel he is, and I dont feel like he is right now. I feel like I took control of his life by getting pregnant and I find that so hard to live with.

I have ridiculous thoughts like the reason I had a boy was to punish me. I'm looking at my son sitting in his wee baby chair (with no dummy in his mouth for once) and hes so perfect, hes not any kind of punishment. I just dont feel right at all bringing up a boy- why the hell cant I get over this. Hes here now and I have to move on from these kind of thoughts.

Its everything- he looks too serious- thats my fault because I'm depressive, he needs to be sucking something all the time- thats my fault because I'm obsessive or I've made him feel insecure.

My parents were highly stressed damaged people who wrecked our childhoods as as result of their inability to manage their own problems, and I'm not accepting that for my son.

I want to be able to talk to dp about this as its wrecking my head but I'm so scared he wont love me anymore.

Habbibu · 17/11/2010 10:12

I think that's a risk you have to take, lela - not that I think it'll happen, mind - but the only way to have a truly grown-up relationship is to face and accept each other for how you are. And he knows you and loves you, lela - every time you reveal something new on this thread you think we're going to be shocked and aghast, but we're not - and he knows you in real life and loves you. Surely he has even more reason to think you're great than we do?!

You need to talk to dp, about the bad stuff, but also let him know when you're having good days, just as you do us. I think when we're close to people it's easy to just want to offload and cry on their shoulders, and we forget to say "I'm feeling ok today, for just now". If you have a good moment, give dp a quick positive call - say "ds found his hands today" or something - let him see your ups and downs, the same as you let us. You could let him see this thread - you've been very frank and eloquent, and a load of random strangers (on what's renowned as being a very straight talking forum) have not seen fit to judge you. He may be comforted by stories like tethers and BeerTrix's, to know that there is light at the end of the tunnel for your little family.

Your son will not have the life you did. you are too determined, too strong and too loving to let that happen. You love him, and that we see you both through.

As for dummies - one of the sweetest and most well adjusted children I know is one of dd's best friends. She used a dummy until she was almost 3, and then she and her daddy put it on a tree in the garden, where the fairies replaced it with a toy pony. Boys like that stuff too at that age. She was mix fed, used a dummy and you could not wish for a lovelier, healthier, more well-adjusted child. If I could have got ds to use a dummy I bloody would have.

Don't think of it as "bringing up a boy" - just think of it as bringing up your own baby. People say stuff about ds like "oh, that's because he's a boy" - but the things they are talking about are things that remind me so much of me! You said ds is the image of you - mine is like me as a baby when he smiles, and I love that familarity I have with him. dd is much more like her dad, and I'm fascinated by how much more I have in common with ds in terms of personality and looks.

Remember, your dp is also smitten with your son - and lela, if he had desperately not wanted a child he could have made sure of it. He could have, he's a grown up and he knew what he was doing. Contraception doesn't always work anyway, and these are the decisions we take as adults when we decide to have sex.

It's not all your fault, lela. Your boy is normal. And thriving. He'll smile soon, and that will really change how you feel some days. I'll stick a photo of ds's first smile on my profile for a bit, so you've got an idea of what you're looking forward to.

arcadia96 · 17/11/2010 10:20

The last three posts have resonated with me so much. Habbibu your post made me cry too.
Lelarose I don't want to seem like I'm trying to 'muscle in' in your thread but your insights, in the last two posts, are incredible, and have made me begin to understand my own situation so much more.
So what I'm trying to say is that I can completely relate to what you're saying and don't think you're a bad person in anyway (I still suck my thumb, by the way!), can completely relate to the DP thing - I talked mine into having DD - nearly one year old - and he has found it really hard and I haven't been good either, so we're both depressed/anxious now. I really wanted a boy so have had guilt about that.
The parent thing resonates too - mine let me down but in different ways to yours and this sense of responsibility is overwhelming and nearly destroyed me when I had DD. I still worry about damaging her with my emotional problems - it's a vicious circle.
It only occurred to me on reading your post yesterday that maybe I thought I could create this 'perfect' family life to make up for mine and of course putting that responsibility on oneself is far too much.
Anyway I don't want to go on too much but you are doing amazingly well, you just don't realise how well you are doing. But you can't see how well you are doing. You need to start believing those of us on here who are telling you that you have done nothing wrong and are already being a brilliant mum.

BeerTricksPotter · 17/11/2010 10:23

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Habbibu · 17/11/2010 10:26

Working on creating a "good enough" family life is maybe what you both need to do. I think if you've had a rotten childhood you must think that other people do have perfect ones, and that's what to aim for. But we don't, and my children don't - I've called ds every name under the sun in a true Malcolm Tucker style when he won't sleep - but it is good enough, just as my childhood was. Make good enough a mantra and write it on your hand!

lelarose · 17/11/2010 10:29

oh i do share positive stuff with dp, when he has called this week i have told him i am coping fine with the baby and that he has slept through etc.I make sure i sound cheerful as I dont want having the baby to be a stressful experience for him. he works really hard to support us while he is away and for now my job is taking care of our son.

i dont know if i can admit what i did to him because i dont think a man can understand a womans drive to be a mother, especially when i reacted so badly to pregnancy (although ironically how the way it came about is a huge part of why that happened).

ds dropped off earlier and i was watching him sucking on an imaginary breast/dummy in his sleep god love him.