Lelarose Desperately Depressed #2

[thatsnotmymonkey]

Hi Lela, I hope this is OK, come over here. We will all be here for you. xx

pumpkinmouse, what a brilliant analogy.

I don't suppose you'd like to post it again on LittleAmy's thread in Parenting would you? I think she could do with it.

Lela, you are doing a grand job. Please do ask for help from everyone you can: HV, Psych etc. That is what they are there for. Their job is to help you.

Hey Lela, just checking in, how you doing?

Hi Lela

Hope psych appt went ok yesterday, and that you're getting the help you need. No judging from here either - the drive to have children can be so powerful, and your background gives added impetus to the desire to love and protect and just be better for someone. No-one plans children assuming that things will go wrong - we imagine it will be joyful, and in the end it generally is, but the heartache and pain along the way can be unimaginably bad.

Getting out for a walk with a screaming child is a good idea, generally - fresh air and movement helps you both - take a flask of coffee and a book, or walk to a coffee shop and stay there - don't stay within 4 walls with a crying baby, if you can.

And punch a pillow, vent on here, and ask for help - there is so much expertise and advice on here. The first few weeks can be grim in the best of circumstances. I promised myself after dd1 I'd be the most grateful, patient, accepting mother; of course I would, after what we'd been through - how could I not? I don't know how long that lasted, but 48 hours is probably not a bad bet.

And now dd says "Mummy, I love you. Even when you're grumpy". Which is ultimately as good as it gets!

Hi Lela

It is really hard with a newborn but it does honestly get so much better. I was in your shoes and in the course of a few weeks I felt as if things - everything couldn't get any better ever - but they have of course.

A baby puts a strain on even the best relationships. My husband said and did some very hurtful stuff in those weeks - he was sleep deprived, and although he knew I was depressed he didn't (and probably still doesn't) know what severe pnd / depression feels like as it's not something he could ever imagine or experience.

He didn't feel that he shouldn't have had this baby, nor did he feel that he didn't want our son or would be an inadequate parent -I did. He couldn't understand why I was finding this so hard.

What helped for me was getting some space in a MABU as you know. My depression (and meds) made me almost catatonic so that I had delegated almost every aspect of babycare (apart from bf) to my husband - which in turn made my self confidence in looking after my son even worse.

The MABU also gave me a break as for a couple of weeks they took over night feeds (using either expressed milk or formula) until I felt well enough to take them on; and although I hated the idea of mixed feeding it honestly did save my sanity, and my ds did decide to go back to wholly bf by rejecting the bottle at 8 weeks old.

The break helped my relationship with my husband - he saw me most days, but he was able to see me more as the person he knew and fell in love with, than as the person my illness had made me become.

Our relationship post child is not perfect - and to some extent I do feel some anger that he wasn't able to support me in the way I needed at that time - but tbh if the tables were turned I may have reacted in a similar way if it wasn't something I understood.

I'm not trying to sway you to a MABU, but if you are offered a place and you feel it is the right option for you, it can be a refuge and help you get stronger and back to yourself again.

Re the routines; for me I bf on demand - wherever, whenever. For me, any baby routine book really just didn't work. Some babies (and especially newborn babies) just don't work to a routine about spacing feedings, and when I let go of any preconcieved notions of routining my son I actually felt a little better - it removed some of the uncertainty and self doubt that I was doing things 'wrong' as my son wasn't following the book.

And every health visitor and mw I spoke to did tell me that the advice to space feedings for a bf newborn is outdated as the rate of digestion is different than a ff baby.

In the early days it does feel as if you have a baby permanently attatched to you. You may have a particularly hungry baby (mine was and has turned into a ravenous toddler), or you may feel as though as soon as you put him down he is instantly crying out to be held again. That's perfectly normal behaviour too - it must be really unsettling for a baby to spend nine months cocooned in bliss, its every need being met, then to suddenly emerge into a cold, hungry world, separate from you where he has to learn independance.

It does get better though. You will come to know your son and his personality, and you will come to love and adore him - especially when you are more rested and feeling better about yourself.

Things will improve. The first 8 weeks are definately the hardest, and the sleeping and feeding settle into more of a predictable routine.

I would def second the advice about swaddling as it did settle my son more for around six weeks.

Re your worries about damaging your son by him crying - there are lots of different parenting styles so you will get loads of different advice about this. I could never stand the sound of my son crying (still can't) as they are designed to get your attention.

I am a bit of a fluffy attachment style parent (sooo different to what I swore I would be) but the general scientific stuff I have read (sciencedaily.com my source) is that excessive crying in newborns raises cortisol levels (stress hormones) and this does have an effect on brain chemistry. It is very unlikely that your son will be damaged in any way from some crying (and all babies do this whichever parenting style is followed) only excessive crying is not recommended.

Things do get better, please hang on in there and be totally honest to your hcp's how you feel - they have seen it all before and it doesn't make you a bad mum.

hth x

Just checking in, lela. Hope you're getting some rrest and ds is a bit more settled.

hi lela - hope you are getting some support.

Hello Lela, thinking of you as always, hope things are getting better.

Remember the small victories. A good feed, remembering to brush your teeth, dressed before dinner, a sleeping baby (for however short it may be)

We are all here for you. x

Hi there, thanks for asking after me.

I'm still a bit shakey but trying to take one day at a time. Dp has had to go away for the night, so I'm having a bit of a trial run for when he goes back to work in the next few days.

I saw the health visitor and CPN today and neither of them think i need to be admitted to the MABU- the CPN said she thought I would have to be judging by my state of mind at the end of my pregnancy but she thinks I'm coping. I guess I am, its just really really scarey.

Thanks for your post Fluffy,very much appreciated, and if I get bad I am going to ask to be admitted.

My ds is putting on weight really well and feeding about every 3 hours. Today is the first time I've been to exhausted to leave the house or really do much, I have been taking him out some days to show him off or just a wee walk but last night was pretty unsettled.

My very dark thoughts are still there about him being a boy and the huge guilt about dp and fear he will leave me, but to be fair I thought I would definately be in hospital by now and just for today I'm not so thats what I try to focus on.

Its funny, I felt so alone for all these years wishing I had a child, but being a new mum is in some ways incredibly lonely.

Thanks for your continued support. Its good to know while I'm sat here with leaking boobs and an aching back, anxious and just praying tonight will be easier, that there are people out there who care about us x

Oh, it's good to hear from you, lela. God, you really are amazing. This strength will get you through.

And yy to the lonely thing - that's not you being weird. I was incredibly lucky in that dh had a year's research leave when dd was born, so he was around an awful lot of the time, but even then the weight of responsibility does seem enormous, and having to just decide stuff for this little person all the time just does make you feel quite alone sometimes. Later on he'll become more of a little companion, and make you feel a lot less alone, but just now you are in the most difficult bit.

Your dp loves your ds, right? Try to put the guilt aside, then, if you can. Maybe the circumstances of his conception aren't what you'd wish, but your dp has a son he loves, and that ultimately is a great and wonderful thing.

Very proud of you re the feeding thing - that's impressive. You are doing exactly what your ds (so nice to see you write that) needs atm - you are a great mother, even though you're finding it so hard.

If you're awake in the night, do post - I'm usually up a few times with ds, so will check in on you.

Loads of people care about you all, you know - it was lovely to see all the lurkers post when your ds was born. I think you just seem so very likeable - it's quite easy to want to be in your cheer squad!

fwiw, sometimes I did find things easier when dh wasn't around; with a new baby you do spend a lot of time second-guessing yourself, and that can lead to disputes when you're also second-guessing each other. Find some nice stuff to do this evening; DVD, fried egg sandwich (just me?), ice-cream, footbath and just take things as they come.

lelarose sounds like you're coping well, honestly you are doing way better than I was at your stage and now, nearly a year later, I am 99% there! It is lonely, but in months to come your little one will start to feel more like a companion and less like something you have to look after! Also hopefully you will meet other mums nearby, in time, and if you scratch the surface (some people put on a great 'act' of coping) I'd say more than half of the other mums will be struggling to begin with. It won't be lonely for ever.
At the stage you are at, I literally had to take each moment at a time, let alone each day, so you just keep focusing on the here and now.

We totally totally care about you and your DS.

Feeding every 3 hours, that is pretty amazing!

Leaking boobs- well I used to rip through the breast pads, I used to go through 3/4 a day and used to sleep with a towel under me as I would leak so much. I used to think, what a waste! But hey ho.

I think the little victories, that is what you need to keep in your mind. You are doing really really well, and all new mums feel pretty terrified. I know you have more going on than that, but can I ask you, do you see your DS as a boy or a baby or both? Love is complex.

How is your scar looking and feeling?

Would you like to talk about the birth?

So glad to see a post from you. You did sound poorly before, I'm glad you are having a better day today. Well done on the feeding, great to hear the little chap is getting bigger. Loads of people don't manage bf at all after a c-section. And it took me a good fortnight to leave the house after my c-section, you really are doing so well getting out and showing him off, hats off to you. You talking about leaky boobs and back pain has given me another new-born memory flashback. Keep thinking I want another baby, then luckily remember how grim it was at the start . You are doing so well, you really are.

Lelarose that's a strong and hopeful post.

If you were suddenly over your strong longing for a girl/struggle with a boy that would nit ring true in light of the depth of your feelings when pregnant. it is enough for now to love this little scrap for who he is.

Well done breastfeeding - that is such an achievement - the early weeks are the hardest.

Keep talking to us about the dark feelings too x

Hello Lelarose I haven't posted for a while but do read this thread to see how you are doing. I think you are doing brilliantly, you are a star. Motherhood is terribly lonely during the first few weeks for everyone (although so hardly anyone talks about it in real life) and you are doing so well, esp with the breastfeeding which I had to give up during the early weeks. As Arcadia says take every day one day at a time and gradually you will see light at the end of the tunnel.

How are you today, lela?

well he was up every 2 hours in the night so completely frazzled.

Thanks for all your encouragement. Breast feeding is something I was always determined to do and I'm hoping it helps us bond. I still feel like someone has just given us a baby to look after, like I cant really believe he's actually mine. Does anyone else have experience of the c section under general anaesthetic? I still get tearful when I talk about it, and feel quite resentful( I mean I even missed when dp was told he had a boy after all I went through to preserve that moment) even tho I know I should just be grateful it got him here safely- it just feels so strange not to remember anything and I thnk of my baby being taken out of me and just left in a cot for 2 hours til I met him (which I only have vague memories of) and I find this quite upsetting.

I do see him as a baby not just a boy but I still get upset about the future and think if he was a girl I'd never have to worry about getting pregnant again, but as it is I still feel desperate for a daughter. I feel guilty and ungrateful for admitting that because my son is gorgeous and I never even thought I'd be lucky enough to have one child.

Also dreading dp being back at work.

Sorry for moaning. Just very tired today.

Never be sorry for moaning, lela - this is yoru thread for your benefit. Am with you on the every 2 hours thing - it's a PITA, but (a) they get better (ds is very odd) and (b) you adapt. yy to the "been given a baby" thing - it really does take a while to sink in, even second time round. But after a while you look round and can't really imagine life without him.

I can imagine the GA thing would be quite upsetting, esp after what sounds like quite a traumatic process up to that point. Might be worth starting a thread to ask about that?

It's good that you're facing up to admitting your darker thoughts - it doesn't do any of you any good to pretend they don't exist. Are you still seeing your counsellor? It seems to me that there's a lot still to work through to help you understand and come to terms with this desire for a girl.

Through all of this your love for your son is coming through loud and clear, you know, and if I can see it from here, you can bet your son knows it too. And that's wonderful - the most fundamental thing is in place, and you can build from there.

Do you want to talk through the whole birth story here?

Lela, I think we had a very similar birth. It all went tits up for me, GA and emergency c-section, baby did get given to me later as I came round, and was encouraged to latch on to me,but then the Paediatric Consult came in, took him away and put him in SNICU for 5 days. Horrible. I felt so so sad about it, so cheated and whenever I think about the birth I get very upset.

In the days and weeks afterwards I was very tearful about it, and was often in floods about it. I could not talk about it without losing the plot. It was hard. I talked about it alot with my MW-who did not sign me off until 8 weeks later and saw me 2/week. I spoke about it to my close friends, my DH and my HV. I talked alot. I really felt like I needed to keep saying the story over and over again. I spoke to the consultant and the surgeon at the hospital.

Going over it and over it made it less of a trauma or me, I was putting it out there and trying to make sense of it all.

Now, although I still feel sad about it, I know I was very lucky to get a healthy little baby boy.

Do not keep the tears and stress and upset about the birth to yourself. Share it. Talk to your DH about it.

You are not moaning!

You can PM me if you want to talk about the birth. I feel like I know where you are coming from on that one.

2 hours a night is hard, but in no way unusual. Sleep is so precious, try and grab some naps here and there as the day goes on.

Oh I'm so glad someone understands thatsnotmymonkey. I know there are more enjoyable things you can be unconscious through than childbirth and that I was so anxious about going through with it anyway. I think its not remembering meeting him for the first time very well that really gets me, and me and dp not getting to share that moment properly.

I also feel like I let myself down by being forced to be induced and that I let my boy down by not being there for him from the moment he was born.

It is deeply upsetting, but as the midwife says I need to move forward and appreciate that it probably saved my baby's life. Its just very very strange not to have been present at his birth.

You haven't let him down, lela. I think it will take a while to process what happened - you will move forward, but that doesn't mean just pushing it away - talking and thinking it through will help.

I also think it's very difficult to stand up for yourself in the face of the medical profession - I don't know that I could have refused induction either. At the beginning of your life with your baby the birth feels enormously important, but as time goes on that will fade, and you and dp will have so many moments to share with your boy.

I can't tell you have lovely it is to see you writing "my son" "ds" "my boy" - it's incredibly moving. You are such a great mother, lela. He's a lucky wee chap.

Not that it's the same, but I found myself needing to tell dd1's story over and over and over again after a while, once I could tell it without tears. And it does help to make sense of it.

When I came out of GA, I said to my DH- "I'm really sorry I couldn't push". He said he found it really really hard not to break down when I said that. I blamed myself. In actual fact there were a specific set of errors that the staff made the ended up with my c-section. I still think if I could have managed the pain better, managed to push, I would have gotten a different birth. And it is that kind of twisted thinking that kept me in quite a dark and upset place for a while after the birth.

It is really hard to not feel cheated that you had some special moment snatched from you.

There are lots of special moments to come, and I kept saying to my DH, you know we are lucky to have gotten through that, we are lucky to be home now with our wee boy.

You did not let anyone down. You did the best you could in the circumstances. That is alll anyone can do. You have a lovely little boy at home, you are breast feeding, you and your DH are having all of little moments together. You are so amazing. x

Oh, thatsnot - that's really sad. I don't think you can "manage pain better", and I'm tired of the Michel Odent-y type thinking that if you were just calm you could pop your baby out without so much as spilling a drop of tea. It makes childbirth into a competition, and that's such utter nonsense, and yet horribly compelling at the same time.

I'm always cheered by the story of my MW friend who, on being given an epidural, decided she Did Not Want to push. And so faked it with appropriate noises and facial expressions. Her boy is now a strapping and well adjusted uni student, despite the patent bonkersness of his mother, who was an experienced MW at the time of his birth. I just think, well, if she was like that despite all her knowledge and experience, then none of us can predict how we and our bodies will react to labour, and therefore not blame ourselves.

Hi Lela - it makes total sense that you would feel weird and very sad to have been unconscious when your DS came out. Even though I was concious (although rather high on the g&a) when DS came out by c-section it felt really weird for me too and I used to sometimes wonder if he was really mine. There was a curtain up across my tummy so I couldn't see anything going on until a strange blue baby with red hair was held up above the curtain. My first thought on seeing him was not,"oh my new baby are you ok?" but instead "why are they giving me a Ginger smurf?". He seemed such a stranger at first. But then he would look at me and it was like looking at myself, such a weird yet compelling feeling. I think you are coping amazingly well with everything. He is lucky to have such a resilient, resourceful mummy.