Insomnia friends - I will sleep well tonight because I have told my unconscious I will- Part II

[madmouse]

Help we left it too late the old thread is full!!! Hope we all find this one!!!

Arcadia big hug .

I've had a dreadful evening. DS3 has separation anxiety big time and I can't put him down at all in the evenings. I have to though to cook all the DSs their tea and he just sits on the floor next to me getting redder and redder and more and more cross and sweaty. As soon as I pick him up, he stops crying. So I get really shouty with the other two DSs as my stess levels shoot up and tonight I overheard DS1 telling DS2 about 'mummy being really shouty this evening, about eight hundred times'. It broke my heart. But at least I am sleeping, I know. And I am hugely, hugely grateful for that.

Poor you becky this is the age for SA isn't it? Funnily my DD doesn't seem that bothered - she only gets slightly clingy with me - and I know I'm lucky but I feel slightly offended! Isn't it true that boys have it worse than girls?

Could you try having him on your back in a carrier or is that really impractical?

Good on you arcadia for determining to have a plan and to go to the new GP.

I really hope he is helpful to you. Sorry to hear that DP has been less than helpful...

I do recommend mirtazapine (I know tell me to shut up if you like!) But it REALLY helps with sleep and over the longer term it helps with anxiety and low mood too. You can just stay on the low dose and see how it goes?

It's good to hear that counselling is getting somewhere, true that the sessions you cry in are usually the most painful but also the most constructive.

becky sorry to hear about DS3, that must be very wearing. He will grow out of it, although I know that doesn't help much right now. arcadia's suggestion of a back carrier is a good one....

Thanks getdown do you work for the mirtazapine marketing board? ! Believe me if I could get my hands on the stuff I'd be on it right now but I've been turned down previously by my previous GP, remember? That's why I'm trying a new one!

Becky please don't be sheepish or apologetic about your good sleep - I'm always happy when at least one of us is sleeping well!

Arcadia sometimes when I sleep badly you are here saying 'I've been sleeping so well' and visa versa. We don't seem to ever be in cinque (sp?).

I like the idea of GetDown working for the mirtazapine marketing board! She should get a job with the company than makes them.

I'm off to bed now, with my book and a cat if one of the cats wants to come with me. DH is watching Reginand Perrin and laughing at it (not sure why!).

Ahhh spoke too soon. I had a relatively bad night last night. Went to bed with head buzzing with worries and anxiety in my stomach. I did fall asleep at about midnight thanks to our friend Paul and some lavender spray (not sure whether it helps but it smells lovely) but horrible dreams and quite restless. I've just sent DH an email with my list of worries - it is quite long!

*Mirtazapine marketing board" What are you like???!

Just saying it helped me, and was SO much more appropriate than, say, citalopram. I believe we have similar symptoms, which is why I think it might help you too, but obviously it's for you and your Dr. to decide between you.

Sorry you had a relatively bad night becky - are you thinking about the holiday coming up?

I've been using Paul McKenna every night lately and always seem to drop off before the end. But I'm waking up about 6am each morning which is early for me, and can't seem to lie in, but I suppose I prefer it this way to not being able to get to sleep.

GetDown just teasing you I would really like to try mirtazapine, but can't think of the right way to 'suggest' it to the GP. I will mention it though, even though the other GP was completely against it (but never told me why ). I think that I am self-medicating to the extent that going on to prescription drugs no longer scares me but I need them to be the right ones. I have already decided that I'm not willing to take an SSRI again - seeing as the initial effects are possible insomnia and suicidal thoughts I'm not willing to take the risk.

I did, inevitably, have a better night's sleep last night but it hasn't changed my mind about this.

DP is being pretty horrible at the moment. He wouldn't talk to me about anything last night and had a crap, violent film on at bedtime when I've said before I don't like to have anything like that on the TV if I'm in the room as it gives me nightmares. He shouted at DD this morning because she was crying when he changed her nappy, even though I offered to do it. Either he isn't the person I thought he was or he is depressed . He won't really discuss whether he is depressed or not, just says 'maybe I am', but there is no way he would seek help about it. He teases me about my 'issues' but at least I strive to do something about it . He won't deal with anything 'up front'.

Becky sorry you had a restless one but it is completely normal to, I remember before I had these problems I had a night like that every week or so, I just didn't worry about it, and knew I'd sleep better the next night. I do think that you have got so much better, really.

Your other GP may have been against it because he knew little or nothing about it. Most of them only ever seem to prescribe citalopram or prozac.

If you are really insistent then you should be able to get a referral to the CMHT, and they are obviously much more knowledgeable about ADs.

Hopefully this new GP will be understanding though, and given your symptoms I think it's perfectly reasonable to say you've done your own research and have been struggling with this problem for quite a few months and would like to give mirtazapine a try.

Sorry to hear DP is being horrible Has he had depression in the past at all? Has he always been a bit "moody" or is this a big personality change for him? I am very lucky because my DH seems to be a very "even keel" kind of guy, not many ups and downs, just steady. It's just what I need as I am so affected by other people's moods

Right.... ummm how do I say this? I need someone to give me a kick up the bum as I've been driving myself nuts with symptom spotting.

Had really bad crampy pains 2 days ago. Yesterday I woke up with really sore boobs and they are still sore now, even hurts to run up the stairs...

this morning I've been feeling a bit sick, but it's gone off a bit now as I've had a fairy cake

I couldn't be....

Could I.....?

Oooh GetDown how exciting, you could be:) I'll keep my fingers crossed for you.

Arcadia sorry to hear you're struggling a bit with your DH at the moment. Mine sounds quite similar. I actually think he's depressed because he seems to get angry a lot, but he refuses to see anyone or take ADs which is very frustrating. I find I end up going off into my own little world a lot. I don't know if you do this too?

Really pleased to read your news Madmouse it's really great as although I haven't 'known' you all that long, you have had a real struggle but at the same time are so supportive of others.

Becky I really sympathise about the horrid dreams. I had one the night before last and actually woke up about 3.30 and didn't want to fall asleep again, it was so bad. Of course then I really didn't and ended up coming downstairs and lying on the sofa with a cat on top of me. I then dozed fitfully until dawn:(

Last night was better as I was very tired and coincidentally I had a lavender bath. Lavender works well for me.

I haven't been on this thread for a little while as I've had another manic week and my head has been all over the place. Tomorrow is a good and bad day for me and this week has been all about the lead up to it:( It's a long story and I've posted a thread on the bereavement board 'Not having a good day'. It's quite difficult to bring up so didn't want to put it on this thread, but also didn't want you all to think I was holding back or drip-feeding. However it's important as I have changed as a person because of it.

I won't go on any more. Hope you all have a lovely Friday evening x

Hi there orangeflutie just read your other thread I am so sorry for your loss.

I understand it helps to keep talking about the person you have lost - he was a real little person, and of course you will mark his birthday. Can you talk to DH about him, and use his name? You will never forget him, but I hope and pray the pain will soften over time for you.

GetDown maybe... I will get my knitting out and start some bootees especially for you if it is so! But could also be PMT, that's the trouble isn't it, they are similar symptoms.

I have been in a good mood today because I've been thinking - next week I may finally have some pills that work! Imagining just going to bed without agonising about what to take and when, and worrying about the night ahead, just seems like absolute heaven. But it's all still in my head (and on here) at the moment and I haven't told anyone. The doctor may be really anti it but I think I've tried on my own for long enough. I may lie and say that I tried the citalopram and didn't get on with it , is that really bad ? I'm not a liar generally. maybe just better to say I know it won't work because I know it can cause insomnia, so I'm not likely to get on with it.

What ADs do you take orangeflutie? I have probably asked you before, sorry.

Orangeflutie I am so sorry about what happened to you . It must be devastating to live with. It's amazing that you've had the courage to go on and have three more lovely children. I don't know what to say, just that suffering can really deepen a person and increase their compassion for others, and in a way maybe make them value life more highly. I have found that from my own (different) experience of loss.

I'm sorry I can't write more properly - always in a rush.

DP wants to watch something together now. He sent me an email from work saying he feels really low at the moment. So I suppose I'll give him a bit longer to sort himself out.

Thank you GetDown and arcadia for your kind words. They mean a lot to me and I think about 'James' everyday.

arcadia I take Dosulepin. It's a sedating tricyclic AD and for me has worked really well as at the start of my depression I was hardly sleeping. I also tried Citalapram but it didn't work for me at all. I really hope you can get Dosulepin or something similar.

Hope we all sleep tonight and thanks again xx

Thanks orangeflutie that is the one someone else who was on this thread, countrylover, had with good success too.
Mmmm... just thinking about that sedation, can't wait!

Off to bed now take care everyone x

hope we all slept well. Thanks arcadia... Oooo do you knit??! I'd love to be able to knit, so clever.

Trying not to get my hopes up ... "symptoms" seem less today

madmouse where are you? hope you are ok?

Hi GetDown yes I used to knit quite a lot but haven't really had a chance since I've had DD. My mum is a big knitter too.

I had another bad night. This is partly due to DD's cough (she just has it at night), and now the neighbours seem have a TV on the wall between our bedrooms and seem to have it on til about 2am. So everytime DD woke me up coughing I was then disturbed by the TV. It drove me mad. I hate noise like that at night, it gets me really stressed out. I don't know if it is worth trying to talk to them about it - may make things worse. The walls are thin so it's probably not even that loud, and they are young Eastern European lads, builders. They are pleasant enough but won't really give a shit about disturbing us. Especially as DD probably disturbs them sometimes. They work for themselves and seem to be keeping funny hours at the moment - they used to go to bed when we did in the week at least but seem to be up really late at the mo. I may try and broach it in a really friendly, non confrontational way if I get the chance. Think that is the only possible way. It sounds silly but I get so stressed out about neighbours. The other houses in our street are all quiet people, and we're stuck next door to the 'party house', it seems so unfortunate! Would have to move to do anything about it and getting DP to move would be like trying to move a mountain, he hates change and he loves his allotment which is two minutes walk away from here!

Now when I go to bed I'm lying anxiously in bed 'listening out' for noise next door. Orangeflutie and GetDown - would the medication help with this kind of anxiety and would I sleep through some noise? I'm feeling a bit desperate now!

how annoying about your neighbours arcadia TV on till 2am is inconsiderate - and if you can hear it, it is too loud, regardless of how thin the walls are.

Am so sorry this is adding to your stress. I totally understand what you mean about anticipaing an annoying noise - I used to find that a lot with DH's "clicking" - the moment I heard just one click my blood would start boiling!!! Also finding it with annoying teenage scooter boys, zipping up and down the road, but they seem to have given it a rest the last couple of nights.

You should definitely try to approach them about it, I know it would be difficult finding the words. If they seem nice enough, they might be responsive... you never know, they could be totally mortified if they realised they were disturbing you! Just say something like "hey, hope you don't mind me mentioning but I'm starting back at work soon and need to get some early nights...."

Yes, I believe the medication can help you sleep through noise (especially at the beginning - I was totally zonked out!) and over time it will also reduce your anxiety.

Would DP be supportive though, in terms of getting up for DD if she wakes? I don't think anything would have woken me, the first few weeks of taking mirtazapine - DH got up with her every time, although thankfully those times were few.

Hi all sorry I'm here

Had a bad night yesterday and a very tough day at work -so busy that I only just managed not to panic - and it reminded me that I'm a lot better but still not 100%. The problem is no one in my new place of work knows that I've not been well for so long.

So went to bed early last night and slept through most the night until 9am. Feel very spaced out, not very good, don't know what's up. It wasn't nice when driving earlier.

Other than that things pretty good here - some of you may have seen that I've been discussing 'the end' with my counsellor - if I'm stil ok the next session I'm going to set an end date. Daunting but exciting.

And it's my birthday Monday and I wanted dh to come to Go Outdoors with me so I could choose new walking boots, but he has decided that after the battle I've been fighting over the past nearly two years and making so much progress I needed something special to mark the occassion and he is taking me shopping for a special piece of jewellery that I get to choose myself. Bless him

Becky well done for making so much progress. Arcadia try not to panic - I went back to work when ds was 10 months and still up 6 times in the night and I coped ok.

Getdown it sounds like you may be - keep us posted

Orangflutie sorry haven't had the chance to look up your htread - may try in a minute - but I can guess at the contents and can only say make space for your grief and feelings. You deserve it and so does he xx

Sorry for the long message!

Hi GetDown thanks - that's helpful. Glad your scooter boys have settled down! I am trying to remind myself that these things are usually temporary but I'm in a total state about it at the moment as my anxiety is already so high. I will try and broach it with them at some point this weekend, and combine the conversation with a couple of 'positive' points as well so it should be a friendly conversation (initially, at least!). I may take DD with me to break the ice - they are always nice with her.

DP would be OK with the nights I think. Unfortunately he's still struggling to get over his virus himself, but once I explain to him about the pills I think he will be good. Hopefully, if they work, I will then be able to share more of the mornings with him because I will be getting my sleep in the night, so there will be a long term benefit for him. He very much respects doctors, so if I can say to him that this is what the doctor suggests, I think he'll be behind it.

orangflutie no way can anyone expect you to get over that. You don't get over that - you somehow learn to live with it xxxx

Hi all,

Cut my mirtazapine dose again last night to 1.875mg (an eighth of a tablet!)

Struggled to get to sleep

Hard to know what to do tonight.

Hope you are all ok

Thinking of you orangeflutie - if it helps to talk about James on here please do. I know sometimes it can be easier to put the words on a screen than say them out loud.

Madmouse and GetDown thank you both for your lovely comments:)

Yesterday was quite emotional. It always is but I got through it. I think often the lead up is worse. We went down to my hometown and visited James and DH made a chocolate Birthday cake in the afternoon. It's always both a happy and sad day.

Hope you both have a good day today. Very brave of you GetDown to cut down your mirtazapine even more. It's difficult to know what to do isn't it? Maybe try one more night and if it's not working go back up again.

P.S I'm sticking to my 25mg at the moment, I don't think for me it's a good idea to reduce further.

I'm sleeping at the moment and if it ain't broke probably best not to try and fix it..

Am due to see my doctor on Tuesday and will see how I feel then. I'm not sure whether my mood has dipped a bit because of this week or if it is anyway iyswim. I also can't run at the moment due to a calf muscle injury which hasn't helped.

When I spoke to my doctor on the phone on Monday, she did say it's ok to bump along the bottom for a bit

Have decided not to put pressure on myself and if it's best to go up another 25mg I will do so.

Hi all. Orangeflutie I think it is great that you mark the day as a family and allow yourselves to be emotional. Thinking of you x.

Sorry you had a not so good night GetDown. do you need to reduce your dosage any further? Wouldn't it be best to leave it as it is just for now? Of course if you find out you are pregnant then you could consider trying to reduce it again, but it is a very exciting time for you now and it may be expecting a bit much of yourself?

DP and I had a really good chat yesterday afternoon. I didn't have to force it. DD had a long snooze after lunch and we just sat on the sofa and started talking. He apologised about his behaviour the other morning and said he has been feeling really down, but was now feeling a bit better. He said that a couple of times since DD was born he has considered going on anti depressants . We talked a bit about how we both are, and why we are like that, and how we interact. It was really helpful . What we both agree is that our normal coping mechanisms for dealing with problems with our moods are less available to us because of DD. I can't just go off on yoga days, and he can't go off and spend all day at the allotment. That's the main problem really, the change in lifestyle. We discussed whether he may come along to the counsellor with me (he may ) and I told him that I'm planning to go to the GP this week and really get some proper medication of some kind to get me through the next few months. If I can get decent sleep, I can be more help to him (though I explained at the beginning I may be zonked for a few weeks!).

So last night I took a zopiclone as I couldn't be doing with getting stressed out again, and I had to get up early with DD this morning. We've already been swimming!