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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 93: Drive in the fasting lane to goal !

974 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 22/10/2020 18:53

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" to maintain on the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally"
means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had past diagnosed Eating Disorders or serious MH problems you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below if you need a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: Mosely TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Goal Weight For BodyFrame
Calc
Body Fat: BFat Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body types ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Units Cals

FD Recipes:
Mosely LowCarb , low carb Diet Doc
BBC Good Food 200-400 cal meals

BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
5:2 meal plans & recipes , Foodie Under 200 Cals
Vegetarian ,
FD Ready Meals & Fast Food

Any Day:
Meal Planner

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
6
moonlight1705 · 22/12/2020 16:15

Hello all, sorry to have disappeared for a little bit, work has been madly busy and I have not had time to think.

DD is also going through the dropping her last nap stage and is either really tired or has had a nap and won't sleep until two hours later than normal.

Anyway, I have not really done 5:2 over the last week and do not plan to until January 5th but I have not gone totally wild either.

Hope you all have a lovely Christmas.

Bottl · 22/12/2020 22:48

Hi everyone.
Life's got a little hectic/stressful over the last couple of weeks.
Glad to hear from @BigChocFrenzy, via @ListeningQuietly but sorry the restrictions are tightening there too.
I honestly couldn't say where I am with 5:2. I seem to be deleting each day once it's done and whilst I know I haven't completed a proper fast, I have been having much lighter days intermittently. And today was so busy, I didn't eat anything until 4pm. I might have a go at a proper fast tomorrow to try and get ahead before the Christmas onslaught.

@harriethoyle - I'm almost too scared to ask but are your wedding plans able to go ahead?

harriethoyle · 23/12/2020 04:33

They are @Bottl... today! Which is probably why I'm awake at stupid o clock..!! I AM SO EXCITED Grin

Bottl · 23/12/2020 07:04

Oh I am so delighted for you @harriethoyle!!!! Hope you have the most magical day and don't forget to share lots of photos please Grin

KateMAB · 23/12/2020 08:51

@harriethoyle have a wonderful day

harriethoyle · 23/12/2020 09:02

Thank you both. And yes @Bottl alllll the photos will be spammed!!

ListeningQuietly · 23/12/2020 13:41

Looking forward to the @harriethoyle pictures.

I'm in Tier 2 so my gym instructor this morning made us burn the 7000 calories she plans to drink over Christmas.

5:2 Tricks for Christmas

  • 16-8 should be feasible every day as either lunch or dinner will be big
  • NO SNACKING unless you make a meal smaller
  • drink a pint of water with every meal to make sure you stay hydrated
  • make sure you get some exercise to get your heart rate up EVERY DAY

and trust me, by January 5th you'll be CRAVING a proper fast
I always do

And remember.
If you need to scream or rant or cry, do it here so that your family time is better Grin

Bottl · 24/12/2020 01:43

Thanks for the Christmas tips, @ListeningQuietly

harriethoyle · 24/12/2020 14:38

@Bottl a couple of preview photos! ❤

5:2 Thread number 93: Drive in the fasting lane to goal !
5:2 Thread number 93: Drive in the fasting lane to goal !
ListeningQuietly · 24/12/2020 14:40

harriet
Those are FAB. I'll download and send to BigChoc Smile

harriethoyle · 24/12/2020 14:43

Oh yes, do @ListeningQuietly! X

Coffeeandcookies · 24/12/2020 14:53

Congratulations harriet, beautiful pictures!! ❤️❤️

ListeningQuietly · 24/12/2020 16:52

BigChocFrenzy
Wishes you all an excellent Christmas

and sends congratulations to @harriethoyle

Bottl · 24/12/2020 20:36

Congratulations, @harriethoyle!! Fabulous photos - you both look so happy!! Xxx

moonlight1705 · 24/12/2020 21:13

Congratulations harriet you look stunning and so happy.

Happy Christmas to you all.

Lilice · 25/12/2020 13:50

Hi all, can I join this group please? I had baby number 3 back in September and need to lose a lot of weight. Im starting the 5:2 diet next week. Not looking forward to it and will need peer support! Ive done this diet after each pregnancy and it's the only one that works for me

ListeningQuietly · 25/12/2020 17:55

Happy Christmas Lilice
Have a think about what you are eating over the Fesitve Season
and then join us all guns blazing
hitting the 5:2 for 2021

Lilice · 25/12/2020 21:10

Thank you @ListeningQuietly Merry Christmas to you too 🎅🥳🥂

KateMAB · 26/12/2020 11:53

Congratulations @harriethoyle you look stunning x

cerealkillah · 28/12/2020 07:58

Congratulations @harriethoyle you look absolutely gorgeous!

I'm just catching up on the posts here. I think I'm going to try 16:8 this week. One question: is this something I do every day? Or just two days a week? I'm definitely going back on 500cals from next Monday.

ListeningQuietly · 28/12/2020 12:37

Cereal
I tend to do 16:8 most days
just because I've never been a big fan of breakfast

  • I can happily last till 12:30 on mugs of tea
and then have a small lunch and a bigger supper with NO SNACKING Grin

Did 5 mile walks yesterday and the day before - making use of the good weather
but today is wet and blech so I'll do a bit of Yoga instead

Its funny how much one starts to look forward to the first proper post festive fast Smile

KateMAB · 28/12/2020 13:07

Last weeks fds paid off, no weight was put on. The cupboards are almost clear of Christmas cr*p now, and there is very little that I like, though I'm really struggling to get my steps in due to the horrible weather here.

ListeningQuietly · 28/12/2020 14:23

Well done Kate
its funny how little one misses the over indulgence when you are used to eating in moderation
Smile

cerealkillah · 28/12/2020 15:45

Thanks @ListeningQuietly , it's the snacking I struggle with. But I've not been too bad at all today. And will definitely keep with 16:8 until Monday.

Petronelle · 29/12/2020 07:20

Good morning and I hope you all had a lovely Christmas. I haven't been on for quite a few weeks. I had some intestinal issues that needed intervention but am pretty much back to myself again. I probably overindulged a little over the holidays and am looking forward to getting back on track for a happy healthier 2021. For the next few days I am going to focus on 16:8, eliminating bad habits and getting rid of all the high calorie low nutrition temptations that are lying around the house.

Listening please wish BCF all my best for 2021.

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