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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 93: Drive in the fasting lane to goal !

974 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 22/10/2020 18:53

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" to maintain on the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally"
means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had past diagnosed Eating Disorders or serious MH problems you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below if you need a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: Mosely TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Goal Weight For BodyFrame
Calc
Body Fat: BFat Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body types ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Units Cals

FD Recipes:
Mosely LowCarb , low carb Diet Doc
BBC Good Food 200-400 cal meals

BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
5:2 meal plans & recipes , Foodie Under 200 Cals
Vegetarian ,
FD Ready Meals & Fast Food

Any Day:
Meal Planner

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
6
Lilice · 29/12/2020 12:31

Hi everyone, which window do you choose when doing the 16:8?

ListeningQuietly · 29/12/2020 14:48

Hi there Lilice
it really depends on you and your tummy and your family timescale
some people skip breakfast
others skip supper
and as supper times vary between households
its a case of finding what works.

Personally I eat between noon and 7pm and not outside those times

InglouriousBasterd · 30/12/2020 11:28

Morning all - can I lurk? I had massive success with 5:2 a few years ago but then had a succession of surgeries / injuries leading to chronic illness and inevitably the weight has piled on. I’m sick of not wanting to look in the mirror, so starting from next week I’ll be starting back at 5:2. Last time I lost 6 stone!

I’m rubbish at posting regularly but just a thank you in advance for inspiring me!

ListeningQuietly · 30/12/2020 12:07

Welcome back Inglorious
THis is an excellent time to restart 5:2
as you can have a think about what you are eating over the next few days
and then join the mass fast that many of us are looking forward to on Monday.

Main thing is to remember that having been ill, it will take a lot longer to lose weight
and that you need to give your body time to learn its new normal

Are you able to exercise - stuff like pilates and seated yoga and walking - as that will help a LOT if you can.

InglouriousBasterd · 30/12/2020 12:17

Hi Listening!

Monday sounds like an excellent plan. My method was always fluids during the day and an evening meal so I’ll stick with that again I think.

I can exercise, it doesn’t seem to massively affect me as it used to when I was first diagnosed - although in tier 4 I am limited to walks! It’s all a bit of a learning curve - I used to be a PT so struggling with my weight and movement has been tough.

ListeningQuietly · 30/12/2020 12:27

Inglorious
Do have a look at some of the online stuff available now
LesMills online is not expensive (but BodyBalance has rather gone off the boil)
Chat to your former PT mates and see who is doing Zoom classes

  • I do yoga with one of my instructors at 9:30 on a Monday - we chat for a bit then do a class then chat for a bit - it keeps us sane

For walking - maybe use Strava to set yourself some challenges ?

InglouriousBasterd · 30/12/2020 13:10

Good ideas!! Thank you Listening!

Beautiful3 · 30/12/2020 18:31

Kitchen closed at 617.

CoffeeRequiredNow · 30/12/2020 19:15

Hello everyone, I'm signing in now to mark my place before this thread fills up. I've had good success with 5:2 earlier this year and successfully lost around 28lbs. Would like to lose another 14lbs. I lurked on these threads in the past and really benefitted from the advice some experienced fasters gave, am looking forward to joining with you all as we move into the New Year.

ListeningQuietly · 30/12/2020 20:21

Hi there Coffee
I'll start new thread for the New Year
so that we can start our resolutions PROPERLY
and welcome
experts
newcomers
and returners

InglouriousBasterd · 31/12/2020 10:49

Thanks Listening! I just saw that Big Choc left Sad she was always an inspiration and I imagine much missed.

ListeningQuietly · 31/12/2020 12:48

Inglorious
Yup, BigChoc is having a break from MN for a few months
but is in email contact with a couple of folks and is very well.

CoffeeRequiredNow · 01/01/2021 11:20

Good morning and Happy New Year to you all! I've just been sitting planning out my menu for next week - going to have FDs on Monday and Wednesday.

We are having a celebratory New Year dinner today, but have planned soup as the starter and am not having dessert. I also delayed my breakfast until now so I'm not going to have lunch which means I'll stay within my TDEE for today.

How is everyone else starting their year? Is anyone brave enough to fast today?

ladybranstonpickle · 01/01/2021 13:58

Hi everyone, looking forward to joining in on thread 94. I have lurked on and off for years on these threads - successfully used 5:2 to lose weight for my wedding in 2017. But three years and a lovely baby girl (who just turned one!) later, I desperately need to do something.

I had an emergency c section so have a pouch which seems to have turned into an apron with the weight I have gained this year...I'm 65kg and would like to get to 60kg or thereabouts. I'll see how that looks nd then decide whether to continue. I am still breastfeeding but only twice a day really - don't think there's much calorie expenditure there.

I have made a page in my bullet journal with top tips for 5:2 and my measurements. Hoping to stick to this and looking forward to seeing everyone's successes.

ListeningQuietly · 01/01/2021 15:45

This weekend is still eat and be merry
but Monday is definitely a fast.

We will let this thread fill before starting a new one
as its very confusing with more than one on the go Smile

Lilice · 01/01/2021 19:03

Hi all and happy new year! I've decided to start with a week of 16:8 from next Monday as I havent dieted in such a long time and im hungry all the time. Im also breastfeeding but wanting to stop (a lot of issues) and feel like my body is retaining a lot of fat and increasing my appetite. I dont know how much I weigh and don't want to know! I've probably put on 20 kilos during my pregnancy 😱 so I'll start dieting for a few weeks and then weigh myself. I know it sounds weird but that's what I did after my second child, I just can't handle high numbers on the scale 😅 I've been eating chocolate every day for 3 months and really need to break the habit

ListeningQuietly · 01/01/2021 20:16

Lilice
If you are breast feeding, do not go below 800 calories a day.
Breast milk - even if its a drag when the little sods have teeth and want to steal grown up food
mine are 20 and 22 by the way
is the BEST BEST protection against future health problems for our child that there is.

IIRC a semi low carb, high protein diet mixed with 16:8 will shift the baby weight while allowing your bones and hair to recover

Lilice · 02/01/2021 13:48

Thank you for the advice @ListeningQuietly i will keep it to 800 when i start the 5.2. I nearly managed the 16.8 yesterday but ended up eating raw carrots in the evening, could have been worse seeing the amount of chocolate we still have in the house

CoffeeRequiredNow · 02/01/2021 13:51

How is everyone getting on? Anybody fasting over the weekend? My first fast day will be Monday, quite looking forward to it.

ListeningQuietly · 02/01/2021 13:55

Hi Coffee
No fasting in this house over the weekend.
DH and I will fast on Monday and DD restarts being vegan / veggie 5 days a week from Monday.
Also all four of us will be getting back into our virtual gym habits
so that we are healthy for Spring.

Today is a play in the garden day Smile

KylieKoKo · 02/01/2021 15:19

Happy new year everyone!

Some bad news about a relative followed by Christmas meant I haven't been in this for 3 weeks but I Will be fasting on Monday and Wednesday next week. I'm dreading weighing myself!

KylieKoKo · 02/01/2021 17:23

I've also booked myself in for livestreamed hiit and strength classes.

Fillybuster · 02/01/2021 17:25

Sticking my head back in after nearly a year off the boards whilst I’ve been at maintenance to wish everyone a happy new year and get some inspiration for 2021!
I’ve gained a few lbs over the Xmas break, so hope you will forgive me lurking (& maybe posting) a bit whilst I summon up the energy and focus to shift it now we are in the new year. Im pretty good at maintenance but actual loss takes far more effort!
Just spotted that BigChoc isn’t around at the moment (did she move in the end?), sending love to everyone else

ListeningQuietly · 02/01/2021 17:37

Hi there Filly
Good to have you back.
Bigchoc retired and moved into her new place just before Lockdowns started.
She's taking time out from MN (the combination of COVID and Brexit became a bit much) but I email with her pretty regularly.
She send me back to look after the threads for here
and I suspect to make sure I get back into 5:2 properly

The main thing to remember for 2021 is that
there is no such thing as a FAILED fast day
just a DEFERRED fast day
Grin

ladybranstonpickle · 03/01/2021 18:07

CoffeeRequiredNow

I'm fasting Monday! I think it'll be really challenging as its the first time in years...

Plan is only coffee until dinner - Baked salmon with green vegetables and teryaki sauce. If I get desperate at lunch might have a boiled egg and carrot sticks.

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