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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 93: Drive in the fasting lane to goal !

974 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 22/10/2020 18:53

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" to maintain on the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally"
means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had past diagnosed Eating Disorders or serious MH problems you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below if you need a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: Mosely TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Goal Weight For BodyFrame
Calc
Body Fat: BFat Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body types ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Units Cals

FD Recipes:
Mosely LowCarb , low carb Diet Doc
BBC Good Food 200-400 cal meals

BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
5:2 meal plans & recipes , Foodie Under 200 Cals
Vegetarian ,
FD Ready Meals & Fast Food

Any Day:
Meal Planner

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
6
Bottl · 03/01/2021 18:17

Happy new year, fasters!
Despite my best intentions, no FDs completed since before Christmas. And having accidentally skipped lunch today (chocolate log at 4pm doesn't count, right?), my tummy is rumbling for the first time in I don't know how long. I'm contemplating having a big glass of water and going to bed with no dinner and attempting a FD tomorrow.

ListeningQuietly · 03/01/2021 18:44

Tonight my household ran out of certain alcoholic mixers
so we are dry (ish) till next weekend
We have agreed that DS will have meat with meals
but the rest of us will go veggie
for a few days at least

ONWARDS and upwards

CoffeeRequiredNow · 03/01/2021 22:53

Good luck for tomorrow ladybranston, your can do this! I'm planning on no breakfast tomorrow, scrambled egg with a tomato for lunch and vegetable soup for dinner.

moonlight1705 · 04/01/2021 09:34

Happy new year everyone, hope you all managed to have a decent Christmas break.

I did not follow any rules and boy it shows. Got on the scales this morning to assess the damage and have put on 3.5kg. Hoping it will be some bloat as well and come off quickly. At least all Christmas treats have gone from the house now. I've got my menu planned for the week but need some ideas going forward.

I am good with dinners but get in a rut with lunches, what is your go to FD lunch?

ladybranstonpickle · 04/01/2021 09:51

Have successfully skipped breakfast although having coffee with milk. (Starting easy!)

Baby's first settling in at nursery this morning so hopefully won't have time to think about being hungry. Might see if I can manage without lunch too, although I'm being gentle on myself as it's my first fast day in literally years.

inthethickofit19 · 04/01/2021 10:01

Morning all! Happy new year!

I'm back with a positive mindset. Think I'm 10 stone and want to get to under 9 but I'm not going to focus on the numbers this time - it's a way of life!

I feel my Fibro symptoms do better on 5:2 and I've started cycling on my exercise bike, I had to start at literally 1 min and I'm up to 17 mins now. So just got to keep on keep going! I've also started having a protein shake with mixed berry's/ banana/ oats/ flaxseed but I'm going to keep them for NFD's.

First FD of the year today.

Glugging the water then will eat around 4pm. Either baked potato or egg / toast.

ListeningQuietly · 04/01/2021 10:32

Morning all,
just done my first zoom yoga class of the year

today its tea till supper time and then an omelette

re FD lunches - I'm a big fan of vegetable soup
or miso soup
or scrambled eggs on a slice of salami
so no carbs
lots of micro nutrients and protein if needed

the other trick is to drink a large glass of millk - surprisingly satiating

harriethoyle · 04/01/2021 10:35

Morning all!! Happy New Year!

We are fasting today - my husband (heehee!!) is making a pot of vegetable soup for lunch from all the odds and sods left over and we have spag bol for tonight which I will probably have with broccoli rather than pasta. Suffice to say, that it's 10.35 and I am RAVENOUS! am also about to get on the scales and see the damage, so I get the motivation of seeing the numbers dropping this week :-)

Good luck any fellow fasters!

CoffeeRequiredNow · 04/01/2021 10:36

Morning all! Well done ladybranston, good start! I'm on the coffee as well (with a splash of milk, can't take it black). Trying to keep busy to keep my mind off food... Not too difficult as I'm trying to WFH with the kids all off school, not good! 🤦

Lilice · 04/01/2021 10:38

@moonlight1705 im not fasting yet ( doing 16:8 instead to begin with) but when I was on the 5:2 I used to have courgettes or spinach or leeks for lunch, prepared in the pan with a few sprays of oil ( the one calorie per spray one), water and spices, especially smoked paprika. Cant remember how many calories that was though, sorry.

Is anyone using an app to count the calories?

harriethoyle · 04/01/2021 10:45

Yes @Lilice I use my fitness pal but beware! It doesn't like fast days and gives you a stern warning that you haven't eaten enough calories when you sign out at the end of a FD. but the calorie inputting works for me...

KylieKoKo · 04/01/2021 12:06

Good morning Monday fasters!

Today is my first fast day for 3 weeks. I am not too hungry so far but I have eaten everything in sight for the past 3 weeks so I am expecting it to be tough.

My menu today is miso soup and salad for a late lunch, bean and mushroom chilli for my main meal and a boiled egg for later in the evening so I don't go to bed hungry.

I have also signed up for a livestreamed HIIT class at 12.30 which I am regretting now but the longer I leave it to get back into exercise the worse it will be so I have decided to bite the bullet.

I haven't weighed myself post Christmas yet. I will do that after fast 2, hopefully I am not back to square 1!

@lilice I also use myfitnesspal - I just just don't press complete my diary otherwise it tells me off for not eating enough calories.

inthethickofit19 · 04/01/2021 15:25

In Scotland and trying not to let today's announcement derail my fast.. sitting right until 4pm and then will have a baked potato

KylieKoKo · 04/01/2021 15:41

@inthethickofit19

I have just seen your post about your fibro symptoms getting better on this. My sister suffers with this so I will pass it on to her.

KylieKoKo · 04/01/2021 15:43

@moonlight1705

I found that as I did more fast days I needed lunch less and less but if I am hungry I always have the same thing.

Miso soup with a side salad of cherry tomatoes, cucumber and a handful of baby spinach leaves.

inthethickofit19 · 04/01/2021 15:51

Oo I would be interested to hear how she does if she decides to go ahead. Welcome to dm me

inthethickofit19 · 04/01/2021 15:51

@KylieKoKo

KylieKoKo · 04/01/2021 15:56

I will let you know. She isn't really one for dieting but I will pass on the knowledge.

inthethickofit19 · 04/01/2021 16:46

@KylieKoKo that's why it's a way of life!

ListeningQuietly · 04/01/2021 16:48

I was freezing at lunchtime so had a banana, looking forward to my Omelette now while nursing a mug of tea

inthethickofit19 · 04/01/2021 16:53

I've just had a baked potato with cheese and some skyr yogurt mixed with mint sauce 😋

Is skyr the yogurt with the highest protein?

CoffeeRequiredNow · 04/01/2021 18:12

Have just finished dinner, on 613 calories. Am having a cup of coffee and then going to brush my teeth to try to help me not snack later.

The good news is that I weighed myself this morning and hadn't put on as much weight over Christmas as I deserved thought despite not counting any calories and allowing myself treats.

How are you getting on ladybranston and KylieKoko?

KylieKoKo · 04/01/2021 18:20

Hi @CoffeeRequiredNow

I've somehow made it through til now on just coffee and herbal tea (maybe due to the late night quality streets last night) so I'm making my evening meal of bean and mushroom chilli.

I'll eat when it's ready and I'll eat the rest of my calories before bed if I'm hungry as it will help me sleep better.

I haven't dared to weigh myself yet. I'm planning that for Thursday morning after my second fast of the week.

harriethoyle · 04/01/2021 18:47

Kitchen closed on 700 calories exactly and day 2 of b2b tomorrow... not as hard as I feared but still pretty brutal compared to the Christmas merriment!

ListeningQuietly · 04/01/2021 19:27

Kitchen closed.
3 egg omelette with a bit of cheese and ham and a slice of bread.
A couple of grapes for afters

Tomorrow it all starts again