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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 93: Drive in the fasting lane to goal !

974 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 22/10/2020 18:53

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" to maintain on the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally"
means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had past diagnosed Eating Disorders or serious MH problems you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below if you need a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: Mosely TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Goal Weight For BodyFrame
Calc
Body Fat: BFat Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body types ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Units Cals

FD Recipes:
Mosely LowCarb , low carb Diet Doc
BBC Good Food 200-400 cal meals

BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
5:2 meal plans & recipes , Foodie Under 200 Cals
Vegetarian ,
FD Ready Meals & Fast Food

Any Day:
Meal Planner

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
6
harriethoyle · 15/12/2020 21:25

The plan's the key in my experience for a b2b... you'll smash it!

inthethickofit19 · 16/12/2020 07:15

@MazDazzle that's excellent advice actually re not being hungry the day after Fd and treating as a mini or b2b.

Something I think I could do.

I used to love the flexibility of fasting when I wanted but since having my second I feel I struggle to do it on the days I have the kids. I work Monday Tuesday Thursday so if I miss those then that's it.

They are 3.5 and 1.5 so hopefully as they grow it'll get easier. Had a terrible time of it with medical issues with them both.

I feel like my portion control has really got out of control so need to focus on that

ListeningQuietly · 16/12/2020 13:22

Just been to my "works Xmas Do" long story but legit
Lunch was served and I did not eat any of the chips or the cake
but I did eat the ornamental lettuce
so have room for supper

Darker · 16/12/2020 14:02

OMG my neighbour has just asked me if I’d lost weight. I bumped into her while out walking. I’m wearing my outdoor kit so a bit bundled up.

NSV. Get in!

KylieKoKo · 16/12/2020 15:31

Congratulations @darker

KateMAB · 16/12/2020 20:25

Well done @Darker.
Survived the day from hell at school without picking the party food and turning down chocolates in the lunch hall, bring on tomorrow

inthethickofit19 · 17/12/2020 08:19

Well done @Darker !

Planning FD today whose with me?

inthethickofit19 · 17/12/2020 11:38

My efforts failed - got a very sore head 😞 will try again Saturday

ListeningQuietly · 17/12/2020 12:37

Nice one Darker

Its sunny today. Off out into the sunshine for the afternoon ...

Darker · 17/12/2020 12:45

So much for my grerat start - I've fallen off the wagon and am currently lying face down in a pool of calorific badness. I'm knackered and am just going to go with it and accept that its Christmas and things are Not Normal.

KateMAB · 17/12/2020 16:30

Me, on part 2 of à back to back. So far so good

harriethoyle · 17/12/2020 18:45

I bought honey roasted cashews. Big mistake. HUGE! 😂🙈

One more day of work and I feel very demob happy... have pledged to fast on Monday with my beloved so we limit the Christmas damage!

ginsparkles · 18/12/2020 08:40

Morning all! Sorry I went AWOL, I have been in such a stress about Christmas and stuff, my head space has been crammed and scrambled. But I have managed 2 FD's and am managing to maintain which I'll take for now.

@ListeningQuietly it was lovely to hear an update from @BigChocFrenzy, I used to love her posts here and elsewhere when I lurked!!

I'm working all of next week until Christmas Day so planning an Fd on Monday and Wed.

KateMAB · 18/12/2020 11:03

Morning everyone I'm another kg down this week, I'm am now at my lightest weight for 3 years.
Still got a long way to go, my next goal is to get out of the obese category on the BMI chart.

harriethoyle · 18/12/2020 11:45

That's brilliant @KateMAB - well done! Onwards and downwards...

KylieKoKo · 18/12/2020 14:40

Well done @kateMAB

I haven't managed a second fast this week. I'm feeling a bit miserable for various reasons and couldn't face it. Hopefully I'll be able to get a fast or two in before Christmas

ginsparkles · 18/12/2020 18:28

Well done @KateMAB !!!

Darker · 19/12/2020 09:23

It’s getting hard now that Christmas is on us. This year I’m quite grateful not to be in an office environment where there are buckets of chocolates and other treats placed strategically at the edge of a desk you have to pass sixty times a day.

Darker · 19/12/2020 09:25

I clambered back on the wagon yesterday with a super fast day.

ListeningQuietly · 19/12/2020 12:09

@Darker

It’s getting hard now that Christmas is on us. This year I’m quite grateful not to be in an office environment where there are buckets of chocolates and other treats placed strategically at the edge of a desk you have to pass sixty times a day.
Poo crumbs Wink

Joking apart
if COVID brings the end of sharing food in offices with people who do not wash their hands
we will ALL benefit
in many ways

MazDazzle · 21/12/2020 13:02

Fasting today to commemorate my fasting anniversary.

6 years ago on the 21st I fasted for the very first time. Grin

Anyone else fasting today?

ListeningQuietly · 21/12/2020 15:45

Well done Maz
I've rather given up on 500 fasts for now - I'm doing 16/8
but as my kitchen is full of mince pies and gingerbread !!!!

KateMAB · 22/12/2020 10:34

I'm fasting today as there is so much crap in the house at the moment if I think I can eat, I will be permanently stuck with my head in the cupboard

harriethoyle · 22/12/2020 10:53

Congratulations Maz!

I'm doing 16:8 today. I'm not in a fasting mood AT ALL! Must get back into it once I'm back at work on 29th Dec... until then 16:8 may well be the way to go.

MazDazzle · 22/12/2020 11:39

Thank you!

I’m the same at this time of year KateMAB - complete control or carnage! I feel so virtuous fasting in the run up to Christmas. I’m a bit worried though that I won’t be able to get back on track after Christmas.

16:8 is a sensible compromise harriet and Listening.

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