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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 92: Don’t train to be skinny Train to be a lean bad ass. Come join the bad asses

999 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 06/08/2020 15:19

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" to maintain on the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally"
means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had past diagnosed Eating Disorders or serious MH problems you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below if you need a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: Mosely TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Goal Weight For BodyFrame
Calc
Body Fat: BFat Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body types ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Units Cals

FD Recipes:
Mosely LowCarb , low carb Diet Doc
BBC Good Food 52 , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Foodie Under 200 Cals
Vegetarian ,

FD Ready Meals, Fast Food

Any Day:
Meal Planner

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
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BigChocFrenzy · 06/08/2020 15:22

🚴 🚴 🚴 🚴 🚴 🚴 🚴 🚴 🚴 🚴 🚴 🚴 🚴 🚴 🚴 🚴 🚴 🚴 🚴 🚴 🚴 🚴

😂 All the bad asses welcome to 5:2 thread # 92 ! 😂

We’re a very friendly bunch; come join us

FAQs & tips in the OP

🚴 🚴 🚴 🚴 🚴 🚴 🚴 🚴 🚴 🚴 🚴 🚴 🚴 🚴 🚴 🚴 🚴 🚴 🚴 🚴 🚴 🚴

OP posts:
EssentialHummus · 06/08/2020 15:41

Signing in! I'll try not to vanish for the whole of the thread this time Grin. I am reading others' posts, just need the replies to get out of my head and onto the screen.

I'm still going strong on maintenance but with a few strict FDs here and there when my weight starts to creep up. Weighing daily bar TOTM. I have found myself running a food box project over lockdown which brings with it unfettered access to the bakery section of a high-end supermarket, not exactly what I needed! But generally fine and stable at around 60/61kg.

Beautiful3 · 06/08/2020 15:42

Hello! 🤗

BigChocFrenzy · 06/08/2020 16:09

Hi, beaut, Hummus

Good to hear you are maintaining so well, Hummus
despite being around the bakery so much !

OP posts:
annabell22 · 06/08/2020 16:33

@coffeeandcookies super progress, well done!

1questionshootout · 06/08/2020 18:12

Checking in, cauliflower steak toasting gently in the oven.

Coffeeandcookies · 06/08/2020 19:16

Thanks for the new thread "BigChoc*. Kitchen closed at exactly 600 today. Would have been closer to 500 had I not got distracted when preparing my lunch omelette and cracked in 3 eggs rather than 2! Didn't even realise until I'd eaten it and wondered why I felt so full on a FD! Lol!!

Didn't have time to exercise earlier so am on the exercise bike now, warming up then going to do a 6km hill session, then shower, pjs, watch a film and off to bed to dream about the buzz I'll (hopefully!) have tomorrow morning!

MadauntofA · 06/08/2020 20:31

Woohooo, new thread! Hi all, mini FD finished at 790.

BigChocFrenzy · 06/08/2020 20:43

Hi Annabell
Did you fast today ?

Well done on your FD / miniFD, Coffee, Madaunt

600 is fine, Coffee especially when it was due to an extra egg
You've got your program for tonight well-planned !

How did the cauliflour go down, SHoot ?

OP posts:
MacavityTheDentistsCat · 06/08/2020 20:44

Excellent! A shiny new thread. Maybe we should make some New Thread Resolutions?

Second FD of the week here - thankfully somewhat easier than the first but I'd still quite like to pop off to bed and get the day finished. Have to stay up to collect DD from the pool though. She's a competitive swimmer and swims more lengths just to warm up than I can manage on my best day. Mind you, last Thursday when I collected her she did mention that she felt "a bit tired". It turned out that she had swum 7 km in just that one session ShockShockShock. I would have drowned!)

MadauntofA · 06/08/2020 21:29

Wow, she sounds like a proper badass Macavity!

Timetospare · 06/08/2020 22:39

Hello, I’m new! Started last week, using Nutracheck as a tracker, and doing Monday and Thursday.
So far so good, and closed the kitchen today at 580.
My BMI is almost 50, so it’s a long road ahead for me, but feeling very positive, and finding it strangely liberating, as I can eat reasonably normally and sensibly the rest of the week. I’m tracking everything and being honest.
So far, I’ve already lost 4lbs so it’s working Grin

BigChocFrenzy · 06/08/2020 23:43

Well done on your FD, Macavity
MiniMacavity is definitely a bad asss !

Welcome, Time 🙂
Congratulations on your SV
and sounds like your FDs are going well too and you have a sensible system that is sustainable

Several 5:2ers have started with a high BMI, but stick with it and the SVs keep coming as the scales - and clothes ! - keep falling

It helps motivation to set up lots of mini-goals,
e.g. each 5lb, 5kg, stone etc and we especially celebrate when people get into a lower BMi class

You can think of little non-food rewards you'd like for each minigoal
e.g. new music, new colour lipstick / nails, Kindle book, movie etc

OP posts:
1questionshootout · 07/08/2020 06:40

I decided to calculate my bmi, as I knew I'm in the obese category.

BUT, I "only" have 3 lbs to lose to be "merely" overweight. So that's my first goal.

I think a trip to the hairdressers will be my first reward!

BigChocFrenzy · 07/08/2020 10:23

That's an important milestone and you are so near, Shoot
A motivating reward too

OP posts:
annabell22 · 07/08/2020 14:39

@BigChocFrenzy No, as I did a FD yesterday. Had a work zoom this morning, then met a colleague for coffee (distance learning then school hols so hadn't seen her for months!), now chilling out at home. We are away from Sunday so it may be a while until the next FD, but I am currently at my lowest weight this year (same as 4 days ago) so I'm ok with that. I will be using the hotel gym and eating mindfully.

BigChocFrenzy · 07/08/2020 16:04

Well done on lowest weight NSV, Annabell
and that's v handy your hotel has a gym

OP posts:
MadauntofA · 07/08/2020 18:18

I watched the programme today - basically putting a group of people on Fast800.
They did make a recipe today which I have just tried - very tasty and filling, and 312cal for 1 serving. Definitely making this again

5:2 Thread number 92: Don’t train to be skinny Train to be a lean bad ass. Come join the bad asses
MadauntofA · 07/08/2020 18:18

Sorry, 321 cals

EssentialHummus · 07/08/2020 18:25

Ooh that looks yummy!

BigChocFrenzy · 08/08/2020 12:59

I'm fasting today, anyone else ?

Heatwave and I'm off to the gym for rsistance & spin classes

  • no air con 😱 but we've been promised this is being installed atm
OP posts:
EssentialHummus · 08/08/2020 13:30

Me! I’m working, two coffees in so far. Home shortly to water the tomatoes/ourselves with DD.

BigChocFrenzy · 08/08/2020 17:13

< arrives dripping sweat on thread >
Good luck to us both, hummus

My usual miniFD:
I had brunch to give energy for very strenuous training (protein porridge, chia seeds, bilberries, pomegranates)

I'm just having an icy protein latte before I cycle into town for shopping
Probably egg & salad for tea

OP posts:
EssentialHummus · 08/08/2020 18:38

That sounds yummy bigchoc. All ok here - I spent the rest of the afternoon bum-first in the paddling pool so feel quite temperate now, if a bit soggy.

Coffees all over the place, grilled asparagus for lunch and salmon sushi rolls for dinner. All fine except I absent-mindedly ordered a milky coffee at a market today - I couldn't think what I wanted so just bought the same as I was buying for someone else. 100+ wasted calories there! Hopefully redeeming myself by closing kitchen at 6pm.

BigChocFrenzy · 08/08/2020 21:38

Well done, Hummus

A clammy 36C here
I must have a paddle in the Rhine sometime, lots of good places to go in gradually and it would cool me down

OP posts:
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