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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 92: Don’t train to be skinny Train to be a lean bad ass. Come join the bad asses

999 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 06/08/2020 15:19

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" to maintain on the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally"
means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had past diagnosed Eating Disorders or serious MH problems you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below if you need a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: Mosely TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Goal Weight For BodyFrame
Calc
Body Fat: BFat Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body types ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Units Cals

FD Recipes:
Mosely LowCarb , low carb Diet Doc
BBC Good Food 52 , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Foodie Under 200 Cals
Vegetarian ,

FD Ready Meals, Fast Food

Any Day:
Meal Planner

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
13
BigChocFrenzy · 19/10/2020 21:31

Well done on a good FD, inthethick
You did it !

That's good you enjoyed the meal, bottl

An early night is always a good idea, to resist temptation and maximise fasting benefits

OP posts:
KylieKoKo · 19/10/2020 23:10

Well done fellow Monday fasters. I'm going to bed now, a bit peckish but hopefully I will drift off fairly soon. Looking forward to my breakfast tomorrow.

inthethickofit19 · 20/10/2020 08:15

Morning all. I think my scales are playing up a bit. Will get new batteries. The kids keep moving it as well and a slight move impacts it.

Not getting hung up on the numbers or anything but I do like to track it daily (note it down once a week) just to keep motivated

robertsmithscorpsebride · 20/10/2020 10:42

well done monday fasters Grin and some fab SVs and NSVs Smile

I had a good weekend but a bit of a bad day yesterday, I am a couple of days off TOTM (which is always difficult) and then we had some not so great news about Ddog which upset me (and I am an emotional eater!) I've woken up puffy eyed but feeling a bit better in terms of not trying to get derailed by this and it affecting my weight loss. Saying that, we have a 5pm appointment at the vets, so will see how it goes Sad Ddog is a large dog and is now 13 (90 in dog years), so I know we have been V V lucky to have had her with us this long, but the thought of having to lose her is just awful - i'm going to try and think positive thoughts for the rest of the day though!

NFD today, FDs planned for weds and fri. Good luck tues fasters Smile

inthethickofit19 · 20/10/2020 12:24

@robertsmithscorpsebride sorry to hear this 😞 sending hugs Thanks

KylieKoKo · 20/10/2020 13:59

Sorry to hear this @robertsmithscorpsebride

robertsmithscorpsebride · 20/10/2020 15:53

thanks both.... Smile

Beautiful3 · 20/10/2020 16:37

@robertsmithscorpsebride I'm sorry to hear this, sending Flowers
Today was a bust at 936. Had a poorly child at home who wanted hot chocolates and cuddles, so I did! Tomorrow's a new day!

moonlight1705 · 20/10/2020 16:52

I haven't updated in a bit however I am doing three b2b minis so today is the first.

I only lost 1kg for the last two weeks so I am still very much in the bounce zone. I will have to investigate why I keep going back and forward but suspect I will need to force a ban on sugar in any form on non FDs.

BigChocFrenzy · 20/10/2020 18:38

I'm so sorry to hear about DDog, Robert 💐
Try to think what a marvellous life you have given her

Moonlight If you've lost 1kg the last 2 weeks, that is fine
Even with a lot to lose, you can slow down at times, but it's still in the right direction

If you think you are oscillating around the same weight, then I recommend looking at the NFDs

  • the added sugar treats could be a problem - they are usually calorie dense bombs - and difficult to eat in moderation, so check frequency & portion size.
It could also be too much healthy olive oil or pnut butter or mayo etc, ot too much cheese, bacon Do you have more than 1 takeaway per week ? They can be huge and packed with grease.

You've still nailed a miniFD, Beaut
So you could accept that, or add another miniFD later in the week

Low batteries definitely affect readings, inthethick so see how new ones go
So does moving them, putting them on carpet, sloping surfaces, not keeping still on them etc

OP posts:
KylieKoKo · 20/10/2020 19:00

Who is fasting tomorrow?

I plan to, although I've been ravenous all day today so we'll see how I feel tomorrow.

I've treated myself to some fancy coffee which I hope will help me get through the day.

BigChocFrenzy · 20/10/2020 19:28

Plan your menu tomorrow with plenty of protein in each meal, Kylie to keep you feeling fuller
Plenty of veg too
If you have boiled eggs or some chicken slices, plus veg sticks, then that would help calm down tonight for few calories

OP posts:
Coffeeandcookies · 20/10/2020 20:01

I'm fasting tomorrow @KylieKoKo and @robertsmithscorpsebride, let's all do this together!!

inthethickofit19 · 20/10/2020 20:46

Thank you.

NFD done. NFD tomorrow then next FD is Thursday.

robertsmithscorpsebride · 20/10/2020 21:32

I'm with you tomorrow kylie although totm is threatening so will have to see how I get on.

Vet not sure if ddog has kidney failure or cancer, going to try different kidney friendly diet for 4 weeks then redo blood test, if still high calcium levels and no change to kidney then a needle biopsy.... I do worry that we are just delaying the inevitable, but have to try this I suppose....

Anyway.... well done all you fasters and moon well done on your sv 😁

robertsmithscorpsebride · 20/10/2020 21:33

High five coffee 😁

moonlight1705 · 20/10/2020 21:55

Your poor dog robert hope the treatment works.

Ended my mini on 890 today and ready for tomorrow with all the food for the next two days cooked and in the fridge.

bigchoc I have a feeling it is having sugar binges as we barely have takeaway etc. Or the olive oil so will make an easy change and use spray oil for a bit.

harriethoyle · 20/10/2020 22:09

Awwww, everything crossed for your pooch @robertsmithscorpsebride

I'm ending today's b2b on 700. Yesterday was similar so a bit above where I should have been. BUT gym classes yesterday and today and they were so fun and have geed me up so much, that it will be worth any slight slow down because I'm over 650/day for my b2bs. We'll see what the scales say tomorrow!

MadauntofA · 21/10/2020 08:26

I hope your dog rallies Robert.
Mini FD today and Friday for me.

robertsmithscorpsebride · 21/10/2020 09:23

thanks everyone....

good luck on the scales today harriet

FD here today, starving hungry already but have meetings most of the day so should be okay I reckon....

Good luck to everyone fasting

Coffeeandcookies · 21/10/2020 10:26

Hope your dog (and you) are doing ok Robert.

FD started, large glass of water and coffee for breakfast. Heading to the shops shortly, so need to avoid the temptation of the coffee shops at lunchtime! Be strong coffee, be strong!!

How are you getting on Koko and Madaunt?

BigChocFrenzy · 21/10/2020 10:29

Well done on your mini & b2b, Moonlight, Harriet

Good luck today, MadAunt, Coffee, Kylie, Robert

OP posts:
MadauntofA · 21/10/2020 12:49

Did you manage to avoid the shops Coffee?!
Just about to have a prawn salad and a cup of tea. Feeling v hungry!!

Bottl · 21/10/2020 12:58

Hi everyone.
I'm fasting today too but had a rubbish start to the day. I think the COVID stress has got the better of me today Sad
Trying to keep on track though.
Robert - I hope your ddog's new treatment helps x

KylieKoKo · 21/10/2020 13:11

How is everyone's day going so far? I haven't eaten anything yet but am starting to feel pretty hungry and my tummy is rumbling so might make myself a mug of miso soup in a minute.