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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 92: Don’t train to be skinny Train to be a lean bad ass. Come join the bad asses

999 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 06/08/2020 15:19

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" to maintain on the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally"
means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had past diagnosed Eating Disorders or serious MH problems you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below if you need a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: Mosely TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Goal Weight For BodyFrame
Calc
Body Fat: BFat Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body types ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Units Cals

FD Recipes:
Mosely LowCarb , low carb Diet Doc
BBC Good Food 52 , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Foodie Under 200 Cals
Vegetarian ,

FD Ready Meals, Fast Food

Any Day:
Meal Planner

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
13
moonlight1705 · 13/08/2020 15:02

Meant to be fasting today but got soooo hungry this morning that I couldn't think straight. I ended up having breakfast so it means my FD is a mini now of 921 calories at day end.

I might try and do another mini tomorrow to combat it.

1990s · 13/08/2020 15:03

I'm back! I've been here before, but I've had a few weeks "rest". Unintentional, wobbly wagon related "rest", but I'm telling myself I've regained wagon control and am back on it.

I'm an every other day 800 cal person, so trying to get back to that.

A question about protein, BigChoc I've seen you talk about protein porridge and protein lattes, is this just literally adding protein powder?

Can anyone recommend a good protein powder I can get in the UK? I am pescatarian and struggle a bit even with cheese, fish, nuts, greek yoghurt, lentils etc.

Coffeeandcookies · 13/08/2020 15:45

FD here, large glass of water for breakfast, bowl of soup for lunch, making spaghetti and meatballs for dinner and I'll have a small helping of spaghetti and lashings of the homemade tomato and veg sauce, can't wait!

Coffeeandcookies · 13/08/2020 17:50

Kitchen closed, 541. Roll on breakfast! Grin

emcla · 13/08/2020 18:46

Mini for me too. Lots of water now ...

BigChocFrenzy · 13/08/2020 20:33

Well done on your FD, coffee

Welcome back, 1990s
I get individual protein porridge pots that just need water, for when I'm lazy !
there are also large tubs of protein porridge oats by various manufacturers like iirc Weider, Scitec Nutrition
All basically have whey protein added to oats
Just choose which taste appeals

The lattes are just protein shakes with coffee / mocha flavour, handy in a heatwave when I just have no interest in preparing any proper food

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 13/08/2020 20:37

If you want a good protein powder in the UK, 1990s then Weider 80% or 90% protein is a good make
but basically you can choose any powder with < 5g carbs per portion

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Beautiful3 · 13/08/2020 20:49

That's good emcla, I'm glad you feel better now. Welcome 1990s. Kitchens closed at 606. Went a little over because of the cashew nuts I had! Looking forward to my porridge tomorrow!!!

Beautiful3 · 13/08/2020 20:49

Well done Thursday fasters!!! Good luck for those doing it tomorrow!

Beautiful3 · 13/08/2020 20:52

Dont worry Moonlight, that's still a good mini fast. I get days where I'm too ravenous to fast too, think its usually the week before my time of the month!

BigChocFrenzy · 13/08/2020 23:43

Well done on your FD, beaut
You still managed a miniFD, Moonlight so that's a good rescue on a tough day

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annabell22 · 14/08/2020 09:53

Well done to yesterday's fasters, another one in the bag! I could have done a mini fast today but I've already had a hot chocolate and they're doing BOGOF in Caffe Nero here, my mate forgot and already had her coffee so I ordered a peach iced tea as well and drank both! I will go for a run this afternoon. Pleased to report only a 300g upward swing after 4 days of hotel breakfasts and dinners. Back on the wagon now!

Timetospare · 14/08/2020 11:21

Just enjoyed my post FD breakfast of a cheese and ham omelette, and did well yesterday closing the kitchen at 498.
As a relative newbie, I am finding this approach easier to get my head around, because nothing is really off limits on non fast days so long as I keep an honest log of my calorie count.

BigChocFrenzy · 14/08/2020 11:47

Well done on your FD, Time
Sounds like you are adapting well to a fasting WOL

That's good, Annabell basically sts

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linmanuel · 14/08/2020 13:54

Hello. Please may I join?

linmanuel · 14/08/2020 14:00

I am just on the LC wagon and have had a SV of -2lbs since starting on Tuesday
I have been IF 16:8 but not full fasting, bit over the 800 cals

Timetospare · 14/08/2020 14:56

hi lynmanuel I'm a newbie too, I ony started last week and have a very long journey ahead as my BMI is almost 50. But better to start than not.
Welcome!

Beautiful3 · 14/08/2020 15:01

Welcome @linmanuel Smile🤗

BigChocFrenzy · 14/08/2020 15:10

Welcome, linmanuel 🙂
and well done on your loss - good start

Are you doing Mosely's Fast800 / BSD ?
It's very tough, but gives v rapid loss if you can stick to the daily 800

Or are you doing Mosely's newer 5:2 with 800 FDs ? - that works well when you've a fair bit to lose / are not in a hurry
Low carb works well with 5:2, but you can have any eating preference you wish - veggie / vegan / Mediteranean / "traditional British" / ethnic etc
As with all diets, results are much better if you cut back on junk and alcohol.

OP posts:
Syncope · 14/08/2020 21:39

Hello all! I joined the last thread but haven't been around for a while. Have just been reading through all the posts; great to see everyone's NSVs and SVs, and all the new starters.

I'm 11 weeks in from starting 5:2 and have had a couple of blips but have lost 17.2 pounds (7.8kg) so far. Really pleased with that. Smile Have succumbed to the biscuit tin today though! Back to being sensible tomorrow. Have fallen into a pattern of FDs on Mondays and Thursdays so will be planning for that again this week.

Hope everyone has a nice weekend planned!

linmanuel · 14/08/2020 22:02

Thanks for the welcome. I have about 21lbs to be at full target Weight, my Bmi is 26.5 but I measured my waist and it is in the "very high" range.

We have a had a bit of shit year, and I have been comfort eating but I don't want to do that any more
I bought a rowing machine, and I am now determined to shift it all, have been on it every day since it arrived on Tuesday, managed 20 minutes today.
Spent the day making soups which would work well for fast days i reckon.

BigChocFrenzy · 14/08/2020 22:35

Welcome back, Syncope and congratulations on your SV
Excellent progress

Linmanual Soups are very handy for a light healthy meal
To help avoid hunger, each meal should have some protein e.g. a boiled egg

For a larger meal, I put boiled yolks, flaked almonds & any veg from the fridge in a small bowl of soup, or sometimes kidney beans or tuna
(yolks are just a bigchoc thing - as an Aspie there are quite a few things I avoid and egg whites have always been one of them Blush )

OP posts:
Beautiful3 · 14/08/2020 23:35

That's great @Syncope and welcome back 🙂

1questionshootout · 15/08/2020 08:04

Right, I'm back from my holidays, so I'm spending the weekend shopping and prepping and totting up the calories in my menu plan. I shall also take my starting weight and mesaurements, maybe even some photos if i can bear it.

BigChocFrenzy · 15/08/2020 09:50

Wlcome back, shoot
That's a good plan, especially the sarting measurements

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