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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 92: Don’t train to be skinny Train to be a lean bad ass. Come join the bad asses

999 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 06/08/2020 15:19

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" to maintain on the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally"
means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had past diagnosed Eating Disorders or serious MH problems you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below if you need a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: Mosely TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Goal Weight For BodyFrame
Calc
Body Fat: BFat Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body types ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Units Cals

FD Recipes:
Mosely LowCarb , low carb Diet Doc
BBC Good Food 52 , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Foodie Under 200 Cals
Vegetarian ,

FD Ready Meals, Fast Food

Any Day:
Meal Planner

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
13
Coffeeandcookies · 21/10/2020 14:00

Compromised with myself - avoided the cakes and buns in the coffee shops, just got a coffee, but bought a lovely marinated prawn and sweet chilli snack pack from M&S for my lunch. Only 127 calories but it was delicious and felt like a treat! It was enough to make me feel like I wasn't missing out.

Miso soup sounds good Koko, enjoy!

KylieKoKo · 21/10/2020 14:30

@Coffeeandcookies

Compromised with myself - avoided the cakes and buns in the coffee shops, just got a coffee, but bought a lovely marinated prawn and sweet chilli snack pack from M&S for my lunch. Only 127 calories but it was delicious and felt like a treat! It was enough to make me feel like I wasn't missing out.

Miso soup sounds good Koko, enjoy!

@Coffeeandcookies not as good as chips does at the moment!
BigChocFrenzy · 21/10/2020 14:36

Good luck too bottl
You're back on track now

Prawns are very filling & tasty for the cals coffee
an FD standby

Good idea, kylie
A hot miso / Bovril / broth helps you feel a bit fuller for v few cals
Then have plenty of protein with your main meal

OP posts:
Beautiful3 · 21/10/2020 16:24

Kitchen closed at 569. Today's been a much better day! Fingers crossed I can do my third fast tomorrow. Yesterday I realised that I no longer feel fat any more. I'm feeling slim and light. I can pull my size ten skinny jeans on and off, without undoing the zip! Well done Wednesday fasters!

Bottl · 21/10/2020 16:47

Thank you, BigChoc.

Beautiful - what a fantastic feeling!! And what a boost to your self esteem I imagine.

I am counting down the minutes until bedtime. I'd like this day to be over ASAP please

Beautiful3 · 21/10/2020 17:36

@Bottl I'm sorry you've had a stressful day. I hope you're feeling okay now? Have a lovely hot salty bath followed by a hot water bottle in bed and a camomile tea. Always does the trick for me!

@KylieKoKo I decided to not eat until 4pm and made what ever I fancied. Which was a hot chocolate with a peanut butter sandwhich. I feel happier eating less because it's what I really fancied. What is misco soup like?

@Coffeeandcookies
I LOVE prawns in sweet chilli..yummy. well done staying on track. If it were me in a cafe, a huge cookie would have jumped into my mouth!

@robertsmithscorpsebride hope your dog's doing okay?

Coffeeandcookies · 21/10/2020 17:52

My son hugged me today and said that I felt skinny!!

Truth be told it would be a more honest statement if he'd said I felt 'skinnier', but it's a long time since anyone has ever described me as skinny so I'm taking it!! 😂

KylieKoKo · 21/10/2020 18:18

@Beautiful3

I love miso soup. I drink it quite a lot on non fast days as wlll. It's very savoury and quite salty. I'm not really sure how I would describe the flavour! I would recommend giving it a try.

I'm going to start making my evening meal soon. A spicy prawn and veg soup.

MadauntofA · 21/10/2020 19:33

Kitchen closed at 790 here. That's a great NSV Coffee!
Just planning my breakfast tomorrow- nothing fancy, just porridge, but I do love planning it on a FD/ mini!

robertsmithscorpsebride · 21/10/2020 20:00

Well done everyone and fab nsv coffee 😄

Fd finished on 528, today has been tough, totm arrived halfway through a 2 hour meeting and I just wanted to fall into a big bowl of pasta .... just had veggie burger (no bun obvs) and salad and 2 paracetamol for the cramps 😲 just about to watch the footie, cup of tea st halftime....

BigChocFrenzy · 21/10/2020 20:15

Great NSV, Beaut

and compliments NSV, Coffee

Well done on your FDs, Beaut, MadAunt, Robert

You did really well to resist the totm mumchies Robert
Enjoy your porridge tomorrow, MadAunt

How did supper go, Kylie, Bottl ?

OP posts:
Bottl · 21/10/2020 20:18

Thanks @Beautiful3.
I never have a bath (because my bathroom is a dilapidated hovel) but followed your advice and ended up cleaning the bathroom afterwards...unexpected twist to my evening but I feel much better having done that.
I'm now in bed and looking forward to breakfast.
I hope the rest of everyone's Wednesday goes to plan

Coffeeandcookies · 21/10/2020 20:18

Oh well done Robert, you've done brilliantly to stick to your FD during your totm! And enjoy your cup of tea while cheering on LFC! Grin

Kitchen closed at 603 here, just finishing with a coffee then going to bed so I'm not tempted to have anything more!

I'm also very excited about my porridge in the morning MadAunt, what a rock and roll life we lead!! 😂😂

Bottl · 21/10/2020 20:19

X-post BigChoc

KylieKoKo · 21/10/2020 20:59

@BigChocFrenzy it was delicious and very filling. I'm not hungry at all now but still have enough calories for a boiled egg if I need one.

Dp has brought posh bacon from the butchers and I'm looking forward to having some of that tomorrow.

Beautiful3 · 21/10/2020 21:09

Well done @Coffeeandcookies. Its fabulous go be told you're skinny, and we all.know that kids dont lie, so take the compliment!

@Bottl glad you're feeling a bit better, you'll sleep better for it.

@KylieKoKo that sounds nice. I'll see if morrisons sell it.

Beautiful3 · 21/10/2020 21:10

Thanks @BigChocFrenzy.

Darker · 21/10/2020 22:29

Writing ‘Miso soup’ on my shopping list.

2nd fast day today. Hopefully will manage 3rd on Friday.

BigChocFrenzy · 21/10/2020 23:09

Well done, Bottl, Kylie, coffee, Darker

Enjoy your posh bacon tomorrow, kylie
and your porridge, Coffee - yep, it's a thrill a minute

OP posts:
robertsmithscorpsebride · 22/10/2020 07:26

coffee how did you know I'm a liverpool fan 😄

Enjoy your breakfast everyone

BigChocFrenzy · 22/10/2020 11:24

What are you doing today, robert, FD or NFD ?
Any Thursday fasters ?

A sunny 21C here , so I'll really enjoy my Rhine walk
Plenty warm enough to eat outside again for tea, at my fav cafe, just 350m away along the Rhine

OP posts:
MadauntofA · 22/10/2020 12:29

NFD here. 21degrees sounds just perfect for a walk and tea Bigchoc. Just noticed we have nearly filled the thread with all our 5:2 chat!!

Bottl · 22/10/2020 13:28

Nfd for me too today. Had a lovely morning out at the park this morning and then a half an hour walk around the block to get my toddler mindee off to sleep. Enjoying the peace for half an hour before the next school run.
Hope all the Thursday fasters are getting on ok today.
I'm fasting again tomorrow - anyone else?

robertsmithscorpsebride · 22/10/2020 14:38

Ooh very jealous bcf enjoy your sunny walk and al fresco dining.

Nfd today, fd#2 planned for tomorrow, not going to bother weighing in this week with totm....

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