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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 92: Don’t train to be skinny Train to be a lean bad ass. Come join the bad asses

999 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 06/08/2020 15:19

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" to maintain on the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally"
means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had past diagnosed Eating Disorders or serious MH problems you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below if you need a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: Mosely TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Goal Weight For BodyFrame
Calc
Body Fat: BFat Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body types ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Units Cals

FD Recipes:
Mosely LowCarb , low carb Diet Doc
BBC Good Food 52 , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Foodie Under 200 Cals
Vegetarian ,

FD Ready Meals, Fast Food

Any Day:
Meal Planner

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
13
BigChocFrenzy · 11/08/2020 21:06

Welcome back and congratulations on your SV, waspie
You smashed the milestone of healthy BMI class with a decent weekly average

Indeed "a marathon not a sprint" - stay cool

Well done on your FD, MissFliss. Beaut , moonlight
Have you closed the kitchen too, macavity ?

OP posts:
MacavityTheDentistsCat · 11/08/2020 21:17

Affirmative, BigChoc . Off to bed now. Have a session at the gym at 06:00 tomorrow (albeit not with your slave driver, Norman Grin) and it's already past 22:00 here in Bavaria [yawn].

BigChocFrenzy · 12/08/2020 00:00

Well done Macavity and enjoy your sparrowfart gym
Mine doesn't open until 9am, so I'm envious of your training in the cool
I've got 2 hours of Norman again on Wednesday evening, spin & advanced lift in 37C - like a sauna

OP posts:
MadauntofA · 12/08/2020 08:39

Morning Wednesday fasters! Huge glass of iced water in front of me - another muggy day here!

BigChocFrenzy · 12/08/2020 16:43

Good luck, MadAunt and any other Wednesday fasters

Heat & humidity are so oppressive that I cancelled Monday evening training and will probably this evening too

OP posts:
Beautiful3 · 12/08/2020 18:07

Since fasting (for the first time in forever) my nails have grown long and strong. Has anyone else experienced this?!

Pasghetti · 12/08/2020 18:11

Marking place.

Beautiful3 · 12/08/2020 18:15

Kitchen closed at 573, I've included an apple to eat later. Well done Wednesday fasters. Anyone fasting with me tomorrow?

MadauntofA · 12/08/2020 18:44

Kitchen closed here at 580. Slightly more than I usually do, but DH scuppered my plans for dinner, so not too bad!

MacavityTheDentistsCat · 12/08/2020 18:56

Well done, all Wednesday fasters!

Yes, Beautiful3, I'll be with you tomorrow. It's quite hot here so I'm hoping for a non-hungry day due to the weather ...

Beautiful3 · 12/08/2020 19:17

@MacavityTheDentistsCat fingers crossed, we smash it tomorrow!

BigChocFrenzy · 12/08/2020 19:18

Well done beaut, MadAunt

Beaut Many reports that intermittent fasting has improved skin, hair & nails

OP posts:
MacavityTheDentistsCat · 12/08/2020 19:24

How's the heat, BigChoc?

BigChocFrenzy · 12/08/2020 19:39

Bad with the high humidity too;
I cancelled this evening's training with the evil Norman as it's so debilitating

However, thunderstorms predicted for much of the night should bring temperature down to 31C tomorrow,

  • fine, even if keeps me awake !
OP posts:
emcla · 12/08/2020 20:16

Hi everyone. Lots of positive news on this thread.

Beaut I found my skin and scalp condition improved. I suffered with dry scalp for a long time. Have hardly any now.

I’ve had a busy few weeks and am upset tummy last week. My appetite is back with a vengeance. Have been trying the 16 8 but find I am starving by dinner time. Might try a fd tomorrow.

Beautiful3 · 12/08/2020 21:21

@BigChoc I agree with you, it's too hot to exercise in this heat without air con. When the weather cools down, I too could do with a motivational norman! Interesting you and
@emcla mention the hair/scalp as I've had a very dry scalp for 2 years, but it's only just recently cleared up. Must be the fasting! Bonus! Good luck for tomorrow @emcla, you can do this.

BigChocFrenzy · 13/08/2020 07:38

Blissful cool relief after the storms
I'm fasting today, had my coffee and going out shortly for my first walk in a few days
Anyone else fasting today ?

OP posts:
MacavityTheDentistsCat · 13/08/2020 10:24

Me! And I'm STARVING! And it's not even noontime. Angry

I think Beut is with us too.

Waspie · 13/08/2020 12:57

Hi All, thanks for the welcome back and lovely to meet those who have started in my absence! Smile

I'm fasting today - 2 cups of black coffee and a litre of water so far. I'm about to choice from my wide selection of cup-a-soups for lunch Grin

Dinner is mushroom omelette with salad.

Hi @MacavityTheDentistsCat , yes always stuck to Monday and Thursday it just seems to suit me. My partner is doing 5:2 as well (he has lost more than me; typical man!) What's on your menu for today?

Still waiting for storms here in Berkshire BigChoc although there is a lovely fresh breeze today which is very welcome. I'm glad the humidity and temp has come down for you. Enjoy your walk.

Good luck Thursday fasters Brew

Waspie · 13/08/2020 13:01

choice = chose (I can honestly speak/write in English but my fingers type faster than my brain can keep up these days Grin)

Timetospare · 13/08/2020 13:16

It's my FD today too!

Just had my breakfast/lunch ( the must be a word for that Grin )
I had watercress, with smoked salmon lemon juice and poached eggs. Bloody lovely as 3 of my favourite foods.

Lots of water, not sure what I'll do for supper yet, maybe a veg chilli if I can bear to stand in front of the hob or a fish parcel cooked in the oven.

annabell22 · 13/08/2020 13:29

Just popping in to say hi, back from staycation Grin

Went to the gym most days but my Fitbit broke Sad

No idea what I weigh, likely to be a gain and I will find out tomorrow morning! Next FD is Sunday.

Beautiful3 · 13/08/2020 13:47

I'm fasting with you guys BigChoc, Macavity, Time and Waspie. We can do this! I'm so glad its raining and cool here, today. The last few days were humid, my hair turned into a frizz ball!!!

Beautiful3 · 13/08/2020 13:49

@emcla hows your tummy? Hope its feeling better now.

emcla · 13/08/2020 14:49

Yes fully better now , thanks beautiful. I’m fasting today. Hope everyone is doing well. Sips lemon and ginger tea