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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 92: Don’t train to be skinny Train to be a lean bad ass. Come join the bad asses

999 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 06/08/2020 15:19

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" to maintain on the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally"
means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had past diagnosed Eating Disorders or serious MH problems you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below if you need a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: Mosely TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Goal Weight For BodyFrame
Calc
Body Fat: BFat Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body types ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Units Cals

FD Recipes:
Mosely LowCarb , low carb Diet Doc
BBC Good Food 52 , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Foodie Under 200 Cals
Vegetarian ,

FD Ready Meals, Fast Food

Any Day:
Meal Planner

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
13
Beautiful3 · 18/08/2020 08:15

Thanks @MacavityTheDentistsCat. I started to waver this morning, so really appreciate your comment. Yes we can do this!! 💪Good luck Macavity and anyone else fasting today!

AllTheFields · 18/08/2020 09:04

Checking in. Pleased I managed a fast day yesterday and came in at just under 700 calories.

NFD today. My rules on NFDs last time were no snacking and one low carb meal a day, and that worked well so I'll be sticking to that.

Today:

Breakfast: yoghurt, oats, banana

Lunch: baked feta with onions, pepper, tomatoes, slice sourdough bread

Dinner: spiced salmon with peas, courgettes and salad

BigChocFrenzy · 18/08/2020 10:24

Good luck today, Macavity, Beaut

Are you fasting too, Shoot ?

The different calorie count for bean sprouts is probably because of the different kinds of possible beans
Calories for the different types:

www.healthline.com/nutrition/bean-sprouts-nutrition

If you have a mixture or a type not included here, then take an average

Well done on your Monday FD, Fields
Looks a tasty menu today and a good NFD system

OP posts:
1questionshootout · 18/08/2020 17:09

I'm doing the 3 weeks on 800 calories like on the TV show. I'll probably revert to 2-3 days a week after that.

MacavityTheDentistsCat · 18/08/2020 17:21

Not long now Beaut! How's it going?

emcla · 18/08/2020 17:35

Hi all. Just popping in briefly to thank you all and big choc in particular. I have broken the 9 st barrier and weighed in at 8 11 this morning. I have struggled for years to get under 9 st. So for me it’s been a combo of 5 2 , 16 8 ( which I really like) , lots of water and this supportive group of people. I will try to maintain and hopefully drop to 8.5 st which would be my ideal. Thanks everyone and good luck.

EssentialHummus · 18/08/2020 17:51

Well done em!!

MacavityTheDentistsCat · 18/08/2020 17:58

Wow! Congratulations emcla. It's great to hear a success story. Well done you!

1questionshootout · 18/08/2020 18:58

Fab job, emcla!

Here's tonight's huge bowl of stirfry veg, (with those beansprouts, I used the details on the packet) just under 200 cals.

5:2 Thread number 92: Don’t train to be skinny Train to be a lean bad ass. Come join the bad asses
Beautiful3 · 18/08/2020 19:00

Well done emcla that's bloody amazing! 🎉
Thanks BigChoc.

Well done to all who fasted today.

Hi Macavity, today has been so much better, thanks. Kitchen closed at 596. How's your day been? 🤗

Frenchfancy · 18/08/2020 20:16

I'm coming back after a long time away. I lost 15kg on 5:2 several years ago. (Just looked up and one of my threads dates back to 2012!). I've sort of maintained over the years by doing 6:1 or 5:2 as needed. The last couple of years have seen the weight creep back on and lock down made it worse. Fasting when everyone is in for every meal was just impossible and drinking every night didn't help.

So I'm back. Not quite as much to lose this time, 8-10 kg. Fasted today no problems but still feeling very bloated. It was my birthday weekend so I over indulged. I'm entering my 50th year and I would really like to celebrate next year feeling good about my body.

Timetospare · 18/08/2020 20:28

I usually fast on a Monday, and Thursday, but we had a family birthday yesterday and ate out to help out. Today I’ve closed the kitchen at 520 ( maybe 540 if I have a cup of tea later).and have stayed in to get slim!
Not sure when to do my second day, as had planned for Thursday but friend now hosting a supper for book club pals, weather permitting.
Not sure I want to do 500 tomorrow and Friday is usually gin and tonic time.
Maybe a mini fast day tomorrow of 800?

BigChocFrenzy · 18/08/2020 20:47

Congratulations, emcla
Fantastic milestone for you

Welcome back, FrenchFancy I remember you
Remember the best tip:
No snacking ever: eat meals, nothing between

You'll soon be back in the fasting swing and on your way to goal
You may need a bit more patience this time round: all diets are a bit slower as you get to the peri / meno stage and beyond

Thatt's a good plan for a quick loss boost to start you off, Shoot
Remember it's daily low carb, as well as 800 cals
Basically 3 weeks of his BSD / Fast800

Well done on your FD, Beaut, Time

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 18/08/2020 20:49

Time Why not shorten the WE indulgence and have a Friday FD
Weekend FDs are usually even more effective than weekdays, because of the greater reduction in calories, alcohol etc

OP posts:
Coffeeandcookies · 18/08/2020 21:55

Kitchen closed on exactly 600 today. I aim for between 500-600 on a FD, so was maxed out, but still pleased with that.

Really looking forward to my porridge tomorrow - I love breakfast and have always looked forward to it even before fasting, it's the part of a FD I find hardest when I wake up and realise I'm skipping breakfast! But it's worth it, on track to hit my next mini-goal of having lost 2 stone very soon.

How did you get on today Macavity?

PersisFord · 18/08/2020 22:01

Hi 5:2 gang, hi BCF, I’m back. I lost about 20 kg after my last baby, and have kept it off for about 4 years doing 5:2 but with indulgent 5 days. It’s worked very well. HOWEVER, I have lost my mojo with my fast days a bit and I would like a bit of moral support. I also think I should try and drop my target weight down a bit.

So, I’m off on holiday for a week so will try to maintain a reasonably healthy lifestyle, then when I get back I will dust of my MFP and get back on it. Looking forward to getting to know you all, especially Monday and Wednesday fasters 👊🏼

emcla · 18/08/2020 22:22

Thanks everyone. Will still pop by for inspiration !

BigChocFrenzy · 18/08/2020 22:25

Welcome back, Persis
You've done well on maintenance
but now we'll add some moral support if you need to tighten up a bit

Well done on your FD, Coffee

OP posts:
moonlight1705 · 19/08/2020 08:17

Morning all, I am doing a b2b FD today and tomorrow. I didn't post on the weekend but only lost 0.2kg so was feeling dejected. Anyway, another week and another chance.

Well done emcla that's a fab result.

BigChocFrenzy · 19/08/2020 11:47

Good luck on your b2b, moonlight
Try not to feel down: noone loses every week, especially not if you are on a long haul over several months
btw, it suits some people to weigh only every 4-6 weeks if the scales are very emotional

OP posts:
Beautiful3 · 19/08/2020 17:00

Kitchen closed at 622. Today's my second fast. Hopefully I will fast again tomorrow as I like to do 3 back to back fast days.

moonlight1705 · 19/08/2020 20:16

Kitchen closed on 701 calories. Since I normally end up with 620 and it's a b2b then I feel it is probably fine.

I might stop weighing myself for a couple of weeks to stop the disappointment....i can then concentrate on doing good eating days.

BigChocFrenzy · 19/08/2020 21:10

Well done on your FD, Beaut, moonlight

You could try 2 or 4 weeks, moonlight and go by clothes fit in the interim, if you want the reassurance of some check.
It might take off the pressure you feel ?

OP posts:
MadauntofA · 20/08/2020 07:55

Morning all! Welcome back Persis and French!
FD today for me. I have a bday weekend coming up, so will be happy to maintain this week.

BigChocFrenzy · 20/08/2020 09:20

Good luck today, madAunt
Is that your birthday next WE, or someone else's ?

OP posts: