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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 91: Keep calm and carry on to goal with our friendly support group

963 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 12/06/2020 22:41

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" to maintain on the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally"
means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had past diagnosed Eating Disorders or serious MH problems you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below if you need a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: Mosely TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Goal Weight For BodyFrame
Calc
Body Fat: BFat Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body types ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Units Cals

FD Recipes:
Mosely LowCarb , low carb Diet Doc
BBC Good Food 52 , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Foodie Under 200 Cals
Vegetarian ,

FD Ready Meals, Fast Food

Any Day:
Meal Planner

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
9
MadauntofA · 29/07/2020 18:24

Well done Coffee! Clean your teeth - really helps to stop temptation!

Coffeeandcookies · 29/07/2020 18:39

Will do that now! Grin

Beautiful3 · 29/07/2020 21:36

I hope your husband feels better soon @annabell22, pneumonia is a nasty illness. Thanks @MadauntofA, you did great today! Ooh I love oats, porridge and weetabix, it always feels so nice in my tummy! Yummy! So looking forward to breakfast!

BigChocFrenzy · 29/07/2020 22:02

Well done on your first FD, Coffee
I hope you are relaxing now with teeth cleaned and temptation vanquished Grin
An early night is always a good idea on FDs, also to maximise fasting benefits

That's fine, Beaut
When you are doing 3 FDs in a week, I'd aim for 800 FDs anyway rather than 500 FDs - more sustainable.

Well done on your FD too, MadAunt
Enjoy your breakfast oats tomorrow
I love porridge - my usual breakfast is porridge with whey protein, chia seeds, frozen bilberries & pomegranate seeds

I enjoyed / endured my usual 2 Wednesday gym classes with the Merciless Norman - spin & advanced lifting
So training rest day tomorrow, with just a Rhine walk

OP posts:
MacavityTheDentistsCat · 30/07/2020 07:35

Morning all! Who is joining me in fasting today?

Had a bit of a bad start by oversleeping due to a dream that I had died Shock). Can only hope the day gets better as it goes along!

BigChocFrenzy · 30/07/2020 12:02

Good luck on your FD, macavity
We all get the occasional nightmare, but get busy with the day and it soon fades away

OP posts:
annabell22 · 30/07/2020 13:32

I think this is working - I just went to the shop and I've literally had to hold my knickers up to stop them from falling down. I'm wearing a dress!! BlushShock

MadauntofA · 30/07/2020 13:41

That's great annabel - time for new knickers Grin

BigChocFrenzy · 30/07/2020 16:33

Well done Annabell on your Knickers Falling Down NSV ! 😂
Now to choose some nice new ones which stay up

OP posts:
Beautiful3 · 30/07/2020 17:54

Well done annabel!! Get some smaller knickers!

MacavityTheDentistsCat · 30/07/2020 19:55

Now NEVER did I think that I would ever be envious of anyone almost losing their smalls in public! Congratulations annabell22! (Actually, I think it's probably a good thing that this is a niche thread. I can otherwise see your knickers going down in MN history and bring one of those things that people mention to prove their genuineness. You know the ones: 'Not a troll, been here for years, remember iCod, the little Korean lady, penis beaker, the Sistine Chapel, Annabell's knickers' Grin).

Anyway, horrible day here and can't wait for it to end. Just have a two hour gym session to get through from 6 a.m. tomorrow and then I can eat! Yippee! There'll be no SV tomorrow, that's for sure. I currently seem to be losing fat but putting on muscle so tending to get slimmer but not lighter. But that's OK - I'm happier with healthier too!

BigChocFrenzy · 30/07/2020 20:23

Don't worry, Annabell
We've had several trousers and knickers falling down NSVs, but this is a safe corner of MN and noone else knows Wink
Enjoy your NSV and your new knickers

I hope your day improves, macavity
Sounds like you have been doing really well with exercise the last couple of weeks
It's % bodyfat that really matters, so don't worry about scales if you are losing inches - the scales will probably catch up eventually anyway

OP posts:
Beautiful3 · 30/07/2020 20:24

So true @MacavityTheDentistsCat! 😂 I'm sorry you're not having a great day. Hopefully tomorrow will be much better.

BigChocFrenzy · 30/07/2020 20:26

I can't remember iCod - sounds like something from Apple Grin
However, I do remember "wtf your minge ! " from the absent-minded pregnant woman in the swimming pool

OP posts:
Coffeeandcookies · 30/07/2020 22:48

Seems so wrong to applaud a woman for her knickers falling down in public, but well done Annabell!! Grin

Second FD tomorrow, have water chilling in the fridge ready for the morning and have prepared my meals in order to avoid being tempted to make something more calorific if I'm hungry. Hoping I can do it!!

MacavityTheDentistsCat · 31/07/2020 04:18

Good luck Coffee. You can do it!

MadauntofA · 31/07/2020 07:26

Eid Mubarak inthethick! Hope you manage a socially distanced celebration!
Beautiful day here, off to the market to buy all our fresh fruit and veg, NFD today.
It has finally clicked with me I think - no snacking was unimaginable to me a few weeks ago, but that is where I go over on my NFDs. I had deluded myself that because I was eating "healthy" snacks, it wasn't an issue, but for me it clearly is. It was easy to go all day with very little until 6 on FDs, and yet I thought I couldn't manage to go from lunch to dinner without snacking on NFDs. Anyway, onwards and upwards!
Happy Friday everyone.

moonlight1705 · 31/07/2020 08:45

Hello all, going to join in on a FD today.

Love the image of you having to hoike up the knickers going around town annabelle Smile it has given me a giggle this morning anyway.

My taekwondo lessons are happening again so went to one last night. They've got us in 2m squares which made for an interesting lesson. Weirdly I thought I would ache this morning but obviously have kept up enough for it not be a problem.

annabell22 · 31/07/2020 11:20

I knew this was a safe space to share my NSV/disaster! That particular pair are now in the bin and I am checking others carefully when getting dressed Smile

Good luck @Coffeeandcookies and @moonlight1705 and anyone else fasting today.

I lost 1.2kgs this month and 6kg in total since December. 16:8 didn't work so well but things really speeded up when I started 5:2 in June. I know others may lose more but I'm just aiming to be a comfortable 8/10 instead of a tight 10 verging on 12, so didn't have much to lose.

BigChocFrenzy · 31/07/2020 11:55

Congratulations on your SV and progress, Annabell

When you're already around a healthy weight, then loss is usually slower than average,
so it's ideal if you can chill and just let it come off at the pace that suits your bod and your knickers
(iPad autocorrect kept putting "knockers" but that works too !)

Good luck on your 2nd FD, coffee
and on your FD, moonlight - TKD is brilliant for fitness, so it's great that has restarted

Well done on your No Snacking NSV, MadAunt
Kicking that habit is an important step in getting to goal weight - and maintaining there

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 31/07/2020 11:57

inthethick I wish you & your family a peaceful & joyful Eid
Eid Mubarak !

OP posts:
MazDazzle · 31/07/2020 13:59

Set myself a challenge of working out every day that I’m on holiday! I’ve been going for a run round the resort in the morning, then doing kettlebells. It’s the first time I’ve ever taken my kettlebell on holiday! Haven’t been snacking and limiting my treats too. So far, so good.

Planning on fasting on Monday as that’s the day we check out.

Enjoy your weekend everyone! And happy Eid inthethick. Smile

Coffeeandcookies · 31/07/2020 18:58

FD2 done. Kitchen closed. 620 calories. Teeth brushed. Large glass of water poured.

Is that all the necessary boxes ticked?? Grin

BigChocFrenzy · 31/07/2020 19:24

That holiday challenge is an excellent idea, Maz
and taking your kettlebell on hols is brilliant !

Keeping the No Snacking rule is v important on holiday too

✅ Well done, Coffee
All the ticks for you

OP posts:
moonlight1705 · 31/07/2020 20:14

Kitchen closed on 642 today so another decent FD for me.

Wow, kettle bells on holiday! Grin