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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 91: Keep calm and carry on to goal with our friendly support group

963 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 12/06/2020 22:41

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" to maintain on the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally"
means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had past diagnosed Eating Disorders or serious MH problems you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below if you need a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: Mosely TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Goal Weight For BodyFrame
Calc
Body Fat: BFat Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body types ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Units Cals

FD Recipes:
Mosely LowCarb , low carb Diet Doc
BBC Good Food 52 , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Foodie Under 200 Cals
Vegetarian ,

FD Ready Meals, Fast Food

Any Day:
Meal Planner

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
9
MazDazzle · 23/07/2020 08:10

3 lbs down! Grin

Got up early and went for a walk in the drizzle. Home now for my morning coffee. Everyone else is still asleep.

MadauntofA · 23/07/2020 08:57

That's a great feeling isn't it Max, when you have already done something and the house is still quiet!! That's a good SV. Good luck any Thursday fasters

BigChocFrenzy · 23/07/2020 09:19

Congratulations on your SV, Maz
and well done for being an early bird for exercise

emcla Try 2 x 800 FDs, not 3
It is Mosely's newer plan, which may be a bit slower for women, but is much better than headaches

How many meals do you have on FDs ?
3 meals on 800 FDs often helps people who have problems on 500 FDs

On NFDs too, have 3-4 meals
and the evening before an FD, avoid junk or alcohol at supper, so you start the overnight fast in good condition

Also, boost protein and eat more beans / peas / lentils on FDs and NFDs
Have plenty of protein with each meal

Aim to keeo stable blood sugar on FDs and NFDs,
so avoid fruit juice, dried sugary breakfast cereals (that's almost all of them)

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missfliss · 23/07/2020 11:25

Hello Thursday fasters !

Hope you all doing ok?

This is my last fast this week and we have a camping trip this weekend so lots of wine and bacon sandwiches are on the menu. Eating healthy is simply not an option on a weekend camping trip with kids when rain is forecast... it's all about the survival

emcla · 23/07/2020 11:41

Bigchoc. Thank you. I don’t drink alcohol or eat cereal. If I have breakfast it’s brown bread or porridge. My Gp suggested small regular meals for headaches. On fast days I used to usually have soup at 1230 and dinner in the evening around530-6 pm. Maybe an omelette and salad or a small meal which the family were having Will do 800 for 2 days.

Beautiful3 · 23/07/2020 13:12

Measured myself this morning, I've lost an inch off my bust and 2 inches from my hips. My waist has stayed the same?! Might start measuring my arms too! I woke up at 3am this morning wide awake, as if I had enough sleep. So I started today very early! Which is strange for me. Good luck Thursday fasters.

sosopurple · 23/07/2020 18:54

Hello everyone. I think I'm going to give this a try. I want to lose 1 stone. Have people managed to keep weight off once lost? I'm a bit of a sugar addict at the moment so hoping to be able to reset my appetite a bit. Looking forward to getting to know you all.

BigChocFrenzy · 23/07/2020 19:09

Well done on your inches NSV, Beaut
Where and when you lose the fat is individual, but your waist should go down a bit soon as well

Your weekend sounds fab, MissFliss - but I hope it doesn't rain after all
Enjoy the bacon sarnies

Welcome, soso 🙂

Many people have found that fasting helps retrain habits
Most important tip on 5:2

No snacking between meals - eat meals, nothing between
If you want a treat on an NFD, then have it as part of a meal, as a side or pud.

On any WOE, you need a maintenance plan, because

If you return to your old WOE, you'll return to your old weight & waist

Once you near goal, we can sort out which 5:2 maintenance plan suits you best
I lost a bit more than your goal and I've been maintaining for 6 years on 2 weekly miniFDs (800-1000)

OP posts:
donnatellme · 24/07/2020 08:38

Hi all!
Back to 5:2 after putting on some lockdown kilograms Shock

Need to shift 6kg really to be back at my ideal weight. I've been a bit careless in lockdown, but now i'm feeling determined!

Trying a Friday fast for the first time :)

moonlight1705 · 24/07/2020 08:51

I'm doing the same donna and going for Friday fasts at the moment until we get back to some form of normality.

I had two good NFD so feeling like I have nailed it this week. It will be interesting to see what the scales say tomorrow morning.

MacavityTheDentistsCat · 24/07/2020 08:53

Hi Di Hi Fasters! (actually, most of you are probably far too young to know the programme Hi Di Hi but don't worry, you didn't miss much!).

Bit of a mixed day for me. On the positive side, I have a SV in that I have finally recorded a weigh-in figure below 60kg (yay!). On the negative, I went to the gym and caught sight of myself on the treadmill and realised that I still look so overweight (and middle-aged, but there's not a lot I can do about that!). I know I am making progress, I just feel a bit demotivated by my reflection. In the fantasy world in my head, I am younger and already far more gazelle like!

BigChocFrenzy · 24/07/2020 12:05

Welcome back donna and good luck on your FD today
A lot of people gained in lockdown, but you sound very positive and geared up to shift it.

Good luck too, moonlight and any other Friday fasters

Congratulations on your SV, Macavity
If you've nailed the 60kg, then you won't be officially overweight unless you are 5' 1" or less

  • and you won't be more than a little overweight unless you are 4'10" or less

Yes, you can shift a few more kg to get to your goal and nearer to an ideal weight,
but be proud of yourself for what you have achieved so far

When I see myself in the mirror, I don't worry about the 64-yr-old wrinkles; I just feel pride in the muscle
btw, I can raise your HiDeHi - I can remember back to when we only had 3 TV channels and only b&w, no other gadgets except heavy transistor radios

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MadauntofA · 24/07/2020 13:39

Hi De Ho! I remember it too Macavity but was still young enough at the time to think it was great!!
I'm convinced that gym mirrors are the magic mirrors that make you look like a fat hobbit** to motivate you! One benefit of this current situation is the closure of shop fitting rooms - I'd much rather try on at home and look in my normal mirror.

moonlight1705 · 25/07/2020 07:31

Hi Di hi campers! I might have been a bit young for that but definitely saw the repeats Wink

Week 1 of being back has gone well, I had a good day of 610 calories yesterday and this morning weighed in with a 1kg loss. Smile

Feeling good for week 2 of being back on it.

BigChocFrenzy · 25/07/2020 09:49

Congratulations on your SV, Moonlight
You've jumped straight back with a good week

OP posts:
annabell22 · 25/07/2020 15:44

Hi all,

I've been a bit AWOL this week, but am pleased to report that I am currently at my lowest weight this year with 200g lost this week. I know it doesn't sound like much, but it's a milestone and I had jumped up 400g after our staycation, so have lost that plus another 200g.

Unfortunately, DH has picked up a bug that may or may not be covid - no respiratory symptoms but boy, is he hot, and not in a good way Grin I am fine so far but we are keeping away from each other and he has an appointment for a test in the morning.

Well done fasters on your losses this week!

BigChocFrenzy · 25/07/2020 18:02

Congratulations on your milestone SV, Annabell
That's fab for you

I hope MrAnnabell is better soon - and that he keeps his lurgie to himself

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inthethickofit19 · 26/07/2020 17:55

Hi all - will check in tomorrow for my first FD following the bug. Planning FD on Monday and Wednesday this week as we will be celebrating Eid on Friday and Thursday will involve tasting the food!

MadauntofA · 27/07/2020 07:06

Morning Monday fasters! Who's joining me?

BigChocFrenzy · 27/07/2020 08:20

Good luck, MadAunt, Inthethick

I'm fasting too, my usual miniFD
Evening spin and I'll lift some weights beforehand

Yesterday's gym ended with me jogging home with my rucksac through a veritable monsoon, in singlet, shorts & barefoot Nikes
It was like being blasted by a water cannon
Brrrr
A sunny morning today, but I'll check the forecast for later !

OP posts:
missfliss · 27/07/2020 11:48

Hello Monday fasters! Going to be a bit of a hardcore fasting week for me now. Had a big blowout camping weekend and usually I would fast on Sunday, Tuesday and Thursday. However this week I shall be on Monday, Wednesday, Friday then Sunday to get back on track.

Away again for two days at the end of next week in legoland with my little boy, so expecting to have a few days off then too.

I think that's why this way of weight loss then maintenance will work well for me because it allows me to have periods of non strictness too

BigChocFrenzy · 27/07/2020 12:03

Good luck too, missFliss
You have developed a flexible system that suits you and is sustainable

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Beautiful3 · 27/07/2020 13:08

Hey everyone. I'm fasting today too. Ate too much dark chocolate last Thursday and Friday due to that time of the month! Have been jogging to try and burn the excess calories! Hey go, upwards and forwards.

MazDazzle · 27/07/2020 15:16

Hope your FD’s are going well inthethick, mad, beautiful and missfliss and anyone else fasting today! I’m fasting too.

Had a lovely child free break with DH and a weekend of socialising with friends. It’s the first time we’ve all met up in years. Everyone was moaning about the weight they’ve piled on in lockdown - except me! Grin

We leave today for holiday. We’re staying in a lodge in the torrential rain! Still, it beats staying at home in the torrential rain. I figured since we’ll spend most of today packing (I always leave it til the last minute!) and travelling, then it would be a good day to fast.

BigChocFrenzy · 27/07/2020 16:51

Good luck with your FD, Beaut, Maz

Enjoy your holiday, Maz
and you should feel smug proud of the weight loss you have achieved !

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