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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 90: In these tough times, our friendly support group supports you in your weight & healthy goals

972 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 15/04/2020 22:43

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" to maintain on the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally"
means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had past diagnosed Eating Disorders or serious MH problems you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below if you need a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: Mosely TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Ideal Weight & Body Frame Size: Calc Wt Frame
Body Fat: BFat Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body types ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Units Cals

FD Recipes:
Mosely LowCarb , low carb Diet Doc
BBC Good Food 52 , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Foodie Under 200 Cals
Vegetarian ,

FD Ready Meals, Fast Food

Any Day:
Meal Planner

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
10
moonlight1705 · 12/06/2020 08:52

I'm doing my second FD of the week and have come down to the office for the first time in what feels like ages. Hoping that being somewhere different will stop me thinking about food. Smile

Good luck any other Friday fasters.

emcla · 12/06/2020 09:07

Good luck moon. After all my talk there is minimal loss. Just under 9 st I always struggle to go under 9. It must be my set point. I can’t possibly eat less.

Upsidedownrightnow · 12/06/2020 09:21

@Beautiful3 I like your idea of not weighing till August! I am an obsessive weigher and I get very unmotivated if I weigh myself and I'm not where I would like to be!

This week iv been doing low carb and 5'2 and exercise so I would say it's been my best week since lockdown, I would love to weigh myself but I honeslty feel like it would demotivate me as I have a stone to loose and I know i havnt lost it in only one week (my expectations are insane and u logical when I jump on the scales).

So i will see how long I can continue before I weigh myself Smile

harriethoyle · 12/06/2020 09:21

Good FD yesterday and jumped on the scales this morning and I'm half a kilo UP!

WTAF?! Fricking furious! Am ignoring stupid scales and wearing newly accessible skinny jeans with pride and defiance.. ! Grin

Beautiful3 · 12/06/2020 09:24

I'm fasting today. It's my third fast this week.

Beautiful3 · 12/06/2020 09:27

@Upsidedownrightnow that's exactly how I feel! I know its impossible to lose 3 stone in 2 weeks, but I'd be very upset that I hadn't!😂 I'm going to measure myself today and compare each week.

emcla · 12/06/2020 09:59

Harriet. Stick at it. I thought that I would be down more especially as my skinny jeans are fitting so well.

Good luck to anyone fasting today

Upsidedownrightnow · 12/06/2020 10:34

I've been doing low carb and it also makes me feel low energy, I planned to do body pump this morning and just had porridge but I still feel abit weak after my fd yesterday so don't think body pump is a great idea, maybe I will attempt it later today afte rive had more food!

Upsidedownrightnow · 12/06/2020 10:36

@emcla - better fitting clothes is the main goal not the number the scales, if my jeans and all my clothes fit nicely I would be happy 😊

How much did you loose?

harriethoyle · 12/06/2020 11:39

@emcla I know you're right but isn't it irritating?! I do like the little boost that a number reduction gives me!

ANYWAY healthy meals planned and tracked for today, bit more leeway tomorrow because we're having friends up to my field for a socially distanced (soggy!) picnic and 2 x FD next week. No point spoiling the ship for a ha'porth of tar!

emcla · 12/06/2020 12:24

Up I have a really old scales and I was hovering at or just above 9 st. Just below it today. I struggle always to go below 9 I’m eating very healthy now It’s hard going. I always plateau at 9.

BigChocFrenzy · 12/06/2020 13:11

Congratulations on your SV, Nathan
Excellent progress

Upside Low carb can reduce your energy for a couple of weeks
Sounds like you are finding it tough though, so you coild try an alternative "healthy medium carb" WOE to stabilise insulin levels:

just cut out all sweet junk and alcohol, crisps, pizza, pies, deep-fried food - your body gains few nutrients from these

but eat healthy carbs - except bread - so have sensible portions of oats, potato, quinoa, pasta, brown rice
Especially boost beans, peas, lentils as they are proven to help stabilise blood sugar

Keep fruit to no more than 1-2 portions daily, no juice, no dried fruit

Kitty You have probably read posts elsewhere about 16:8 on its own - without 5:2

In such cases, without the calorie deficit of FDs, 16:8 needs a daily calorie deficit of 400-500 to lose about 1lb weekly

Some people naturally do this, by cutting out either breakfast or supper;
others eat the same amount within 8 hours as they did in a whole day - and hence usually see little progress

Many people combine 5:2 with an "eating window" to help keep NFDs under control,
which can be 12:12, 14:10 or 16:8

Women's biology means we are more likely to find 16:8 rather tough and hence many now do 14:10 instead

Either 14:10 or 16:8 work well with 5:2 for most people

Everyone - dial back the pressure on yourselves:
If you've a few stone to lose, that took years to put on and won't all come off in a few weeks

Whatever system / tweaks you try with 5:2, give it at least 2 weeks, preferably 3 to work
Nothing except a VLCD (e.g. BSD / Fast800) will give much loss within just a few days

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 12/06/2020 13:13

The key to weight loss is to stay focused on a WOE that is sustainable for you over many weeks, many months,
even 1-2 years if you've many stone to lose

So, patience and persistence are key

OP posts:
Waspie · 12/06/2020 14:00

Great jeans NSV harriet Grin

Great SV spatchcock and epic SV Nathan that's an amazing weight loss.

I have a tentative small SV of 0.4kg loss to report, but I'm not considering it an SV until it stays off for a week. I am cheered by it though as it (hopefully) sees an end to a month without any loss at all. It's even better because last weekend was my birthday so cake, champagne and an Indian takeaway was consumed Grin

I love those insulin diagrams BCF they really brought the whole NO SNACKS message home to me.

May I ask a dumb question? I know diet drinks are bad but what about tea or a soft drink like lime and soda water? On NFDs I mean. I drink lots of tea - "builders" tea; strong, no sugar or sweetener with a tiny dash of milk. Would that cause an insulin spike if I drink it between meals? Thanks.

Good luck Fridays fasters Brew

emcla · 12/06/2020 16:06

Bcf. I love “dial back the pressure “. That’s what I need to hear. Thanks. Smile

Beautiful3 · 12/06/2020 20:24

Kitchen closed at 674. Went a bit over as its pizza night! But it was my third fast day. Might revert back to two days next week, as I found 3, harder.

moonlight1705 · 12/06/2020 20:30

Ended on 623 today today.

Well done beautiful3 - three days are very hard.

BigChocFrenzy · 12/06/2020 21:27

Well done on your FDs, beaut, moonlight

Waspie No question is dumb, so everyone ask away
Unsweetened tea with a dash of milk would have no discernable effect on insulin, so it's fine

Stay chilled, emcla Smile

OP posts:
Beautiful3 · 12/06/2020 21:56

Thanks @moonlight, well done to you too. Yes doubt I'd do 3 again!

Upsidedownrightnow · 12/06/2020 22:05

@BigChocFrenzy I have been eating between 22% and 31% carbs per day according to MFP, I just really want to give myself a nice weightloss boost and I find eating lower carbs I don't run around like a carb junky looking for chocolate or biscuits.

I may include some small portions of potatoes next week perhaps if i need them, but i know bread and pasta arn't good for me. I have cut out alcohol and junk so fingers crossed

@emcla You are at my goal weight I wish I was there - this is my comfortable weight :) How long have you been doing 5:2 and how much have you lost?

BigChocFrenzy · 12/06/2020 22:44

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We have a new Thread #91

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OP posts:
MazDazzle · 14/06/2020 23:23

Planning on fasting tomorrow. After 4 NFD, I’m looking forward to that empty feeling.

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