Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 90: In these tough times, our friendly support group supports you in your weight & healthy goals

972 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 15/04/2020 22:43

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" to maintain on the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally"
means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had past diagnosed Eating Disorders or serious MH problems you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below if you need a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: Mosely TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Ideal Weight & Body Frame Size: Calc Wt Frame
Body Fat: BFat Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body types ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Units Cals

FD Recipes:
Mosely LowCarb , low carb Diet Doc
BBC Good Food 52 , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Foodie Under 200 Cals
Vegetarian ,

FD Ready Meals, Fast Food

Any Day:
Meal Planner

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
10
Syncope · 08/06/2020 07:00

Thanks for the welcome Beautiful3, moonlight1705, BigChocFrenzy and emcla! And welcome 73kittycat73 - I'm also fasting today, anyone else?

Beautiful3 · 08/06/2020 07:29

Ok I understand now, thanks BigChoc. I'm fasting today too @Syncope. Good luck.

Beautiful3 · 08/06/2020 07:32

Welcome @kittycat73.

Upsidedownrightnow · 08/06/2020 09:26

@BigChocFrenzy I agree with just trying to cut out the rubbish and not going keto as it does seem quite extreme, Im also not so keen on the high fat side if it. I'm going to try not to eat bread, pasta and rice and potatoes too for a bit to kick start my weightloss.

@Syncope welcome and well done on your loss Smile

@moonlight1705 my snacking is very much boredom snacking too and its a bad habit I've created over the years

@73kittycat73 welcome to tee group Smile

homeschoolhell · 08/06/2020 10:00

morning all - was completely AWOL last week and stuck in decorating hell (I also didnt fast and ate SHITLOADS!)

things have eased now (and lounge looks amazing) so I'm gonna try my best and get back on track this week - FD planned for tomorrow and friday.

Will try and read back through thread but well done to all on your SVs NSVs and FDs Grin

Right off for the first (of many) zoom meetings - humpfffff!!!

MazDazzle · 08/06/2020 10:18

I was contemplating a FD, but I fasted on Sat and had a very sensible day yesterday, so it sort of seems too soon iyswim?

I’ve fallen so far behind with the laundry. Finally put away a mountain of clothes yesterday. Feel like a weight has been lifted. Does anyone else grab the same clothes day in, day out? Especially now when we aren’t going about our lives as normal. I forgot I had half the clothes in my wardrobe! Some of them don’t fit at the moment, but it won’t be long.

Good luck Syncope, Beautiful and anyone else fasting today!

BigChocFrenzy · 08/06/2020 11:29

Welcome, kitty 🙂 and congratulations on your SV

800 cal FDs work well for people with high TDEE (2400+):
e.g. men, women with a lot of weight to lose, very tall / young / active women

However, for most women, 800 cal FDs slow weight loss a bit
and for "hard losers" it can make a difference
However, the most important thing for any WOE is that it be sustainable, so it can still be better in the long run

I suggest you try 800 calories for the first few weeks and see how you progress progress

Good luck on your FD, Syncope, Kitty, Beaut

Fast when you feel ready, Maz - maybe tomorrow ?

Enjoy your swish lounge, Homeschool

Good luck on the no-junk, Upside
If it feels tough, then allow yourself sensible portions of potato, pasta etc

A useful trick to reduce insulin impact of these is to have "resistant starches"
Cook potato / rice / pasta and let it cool sufficiently to put in fridge
Later, you can either eat it cold, or reheat - and the insulin impact will be lower

OP posts:
DownCherryTreeLane · 08/06/2020 13:45

@Upsidedownrightnow I want to lose four stone in total

Welcome @Syncope and @73kittycat73 SmileFlowers

Checking in for another FD. Last week I experimented and had some 400-500 calorie ready meals for my FD dinner (I only eat one meal on FD) but I found I was still quite hungry afterwards despite bulking them out with a large side salad so I am restorting back to my FD favourite which is two boiled eggs with two slices of wholemeal toast. It is so filling.

Upsidedownrightnow · 08/06/2020 13:55

@BigChocFrenzy yes if it is too difficult I will allow some sensible carbs in smaller amounts 😁

I've only recently heard the trick about putting bread in the freezer, I didn't realise it was all carbs Hmm

So last week i did 3 workouts of body combat all before food

I am fasting today and did 30mins body combat and 12nins body pump but started to feel a little sick so put down the weights and continued without.

Do you think strength or cardio is better on fasting days?

I was planning to do fasted cardio everyday but now I want to add in the strength I thibk I might eat tomorrow morning and do maybe 30mins cardio and 30mins strength Hmm

MazDazzle · 08/06/2020 17:11

Yes I think I’ll go for it tomorrow BC. I’ve got leftovers portioned up in the fridge, so my FD meal is ready and waiting.

I’ve been hiding my legs for almost 20 years, but now I’m almost forty I’ve decided ‘Fuck it!’. I’m wearing my one and only pair of shorts today and I’ve ordered a couple of new pairs. I’m going to wear them all summer!

Hope your FD have gone well, Syncope, Beautuful and the rest of you.

BigChocFrenzy · 08/06/2020 18:46

Maz I live in knee length cargo shorts all summer, v handy with all the pockets

Upside I suggest either making FDs your rest days, or the days when you do strength training
and don't do fasted cardio training for now, especially not longer / tougher sessions.

Some experienced exercisers can manage it; some can't until they are very experienced fasters

Cherry Eggs & wholemeal toast are filling & nourishing, a reliable FD standby
Maybe add a tomato or peppers for added nutrition and staiety.

Sometimes I have sardines or mackerel with tomato & lemon on rye toast

OP posts:
73kittycat73 · 08/06/2020 19:14

Hello again everyone. Thank you for the lovely welcome all. Smile
I hope everyone's day is going well?
Thank you for the clarification BigChocFrenzy. I think I will stick to 800 cals a FD for now. I am now diabetic (Type 2. Wasn't diabetic when I first tried 5:2.) and don't think it would be a good idea to eat such a low amount. I also went a bit 'binge mad' for my last few dieting attempts. I have been dieting since January and think it got to me a bit! lol Grin I figure if I can cope with 800 cals on a FD, it's slower, but more manageable for me long term. Thinking of going to bed early tonight though, less time to think I feel hungry! Grin lol

BigChocFrenzy · 08/06/2020 19:48

That's sensible, Kitty
Mosely recommends 800 cals for T2 in his BSD / Fast 800 because he also thinks diabetics shouldn't go too low

You can have 2-3 small meals for that, as he suggests,
rather than one larger meal as many 5:2ers have on 500 cals

An early night is always good to maximise the fasting benefits

OP posts:
Syncope · 08/06/2020 20:11

Hope everyone fasting is having a good day - Beautiful3, DownCherryTreeLane, Upsidedownrightnow, 73kittycat73 and anyone else I've missed!

I had rocket, cucumber, tomato, a small spoonful of coleslaw and some tiny cubes of double gloucester cheese for lunch, followed by salmon, broccoli, green beans and new potatoes in watercress sauce for tea. The salmon meal was a 'Beautifully Balanced' Tesco ready meal for 289 calories - wasn't bad, although the salmon was a bit dry.

That would have brought me in at just under 500 but I succumbed to temptation and had a bite of DH's garlic flatbread so I'm finishing on 524. Not too bad. Definitely felt hungrier today than on my FDs last week, but i suspect that's because work wasn't so busy today so I had less to distract me.

73kittycat73 I might go for the early night option too! Can't feel hungry while I'm asleep. Grin

BigChocFrenzy · 08/06/2020 20:30

Well done on your FD, syncope

OP posts:
emcla · 08/06/2020 20:54

Welcome kitty
Well done fasters.

I fasted too. Have had a busy day so it flew by. Off for a cup of tea now.

Beautiful3 · 08/06/2020 21:25

Thanks @MazDazzle. Kitchen closed at 593. Bit over, but did find today hard. I didn't sleep very well last night, so craved sugar. The chocolate covered rice cake I had took me over slightly! Well done @Syncope, @emcla and anyone else fasting today!

Mammyloveswine · 09/06/2020 08:19

Hi all! Had my first fast day yesterday (am combing with 16:8), had a fish, mash and spinach dish for my dinner which was lovely!

Drank lots of black coffee and lots of water plus I was at work so that helped!

Had an apple mid afternoon to tide me over!

I feel very focussed and determined!

I have been half heartedly doing slimming world but not sticking to it and weigh in is a Wednesday which just doesn't work for me! As I then "treat myself" on Wednesday, then back on plan Thursday, then fri and sat "treat myself" again because it's the weekend 🙈

Mammyloveswine · 09/06/2020 08:20

Combining not combing

Waspie · 09/06/2020 08:41

Morning All.
I'm sorry I've been AWOL for a couple of weeks. Work has been really busy and I haven't had much time to check in. I've been fasting Monday and Thursday as usual and sticking to TDEE the other days.

I haven't lost any weight for over a month though and I will admit that I'm becoming rather jaded. I think it's me/my metabolism rather than 5:2 because DP has been on the same diet and we've eaten together every day (although I've made my portions smaller to balance my lower TDEE) and he has lost 14Kg to my 7Kg.

I've missed well over 300 posts on this thread so I'll try and catch up with all of your news and progress today.

Good luck Tuesday fasters [tea]

Waspie · 09/06/2020 08:42

Been away so long I've forgotten the emojis! Brew

moonlight1705 · 09/06/2020 08:57

Welcome back Waspie. Men are so annoying with how quickly they can lose weight when the want. My DH merely has to go for another run a week and not drink for the weekend and he has lost any excess.

I'm on my first FD of the week today so really going for it with a pint of water next to me and marmite on standby for later.

Upsidedownrightnow · 09/06/2020 09:38

@BigChocFrenzy before lockdown i seemed to be fine doing the fasted cardio last week and i felt fine yesterday, it was just after the strength bit I started to feel unwell. Before lockdown I was doing 5-7hours of pole fitness each week so I'm not new to working out I'm just getting used to different types of exercise 🙂

Maybe I will try strength on the fd as on the weekends I am doing a course so I won't have time for a workout in the morning and afternoons I try to spend with dd.

I really want to aim for as close to 5 days working out per week so I can keep my tdee up, I also feel much better mentally when I workout.

It would be good if I could do yoga or bodybalance maybe on my fd but I did want to aim for 3-5 sessions per week of cardio and atleast 2 strength Hmm

Unless I did bodybalance on my 2 fast days, leaves me 3 more days in the week so on those days I could do 3 half hour cardio sessions and the 2 half hour strength.

@BigChocFrenzy would that still be enough to be moderately active on the tdee calculator? I know it says 30mins of exercise 3-5 times per week and i know you said he recommends going down a level so I wanted to ensure I am completely within thay range if you see what I mean.

Beautiful3 · 09/06/2020 09:42

@Mammyloveswine agree with you regarding slimming world also weight watchers. I couldn't even lose a stone there! Excerise used to be the only thing that shifted that winter stone for the summer! Except now I'm older, nothing's worked until this 5:2 diet! I feel thinner but going to have to weigh myself to be sure!

Beautiful3 · 09/06/2020 09:46

Welcome back @Waspie. Aren't men annoying?! My husband can lose a stone in 4 weeks just by giving up beer and start running!!! Annoys me alot! I'm just jealous really, as I wish I could do the same! 😂