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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 90: In these tough times, our friendly support group supports you in your weight & healthy goals

972 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 15/04/2020 22:43

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" to maintain on the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally"
means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had past diagnosed Eating Disorders or serious MH problems you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below if you need a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: Mosely TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Ideal Weight & Body Frame Size: Calc Wt Frame
Body Fat: BFat Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body types ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Units Cals

FD Recipes:
Mosely LowCarb , low carb Diet Doc
BBC Good Food 52 , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Foodie Under 200 Cals
Vegetarian ,

FD Ready Meals, Fast Food

Any Day:
Meal Planner

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
10
SydneyCarton · 20/04/2020 07:53

Fell off the last thread a bit but have found the new one now.

Sorry to hear about your aunt nose, I hope you are doing okay

Been bouncing up and down between 9:11 and 9:12 but have stayed at 9:12 for two weeks which is good. I haven’t been logging on MFP for a week or so as we’ve been on leave over Easter and I wanted a bit of a break. It feels good to be able to have a glass of wine again after what seemed like the longest Lent in history 😱. I haven’t gone too crazy with the chocolate though, still a lot of eggs to get through!

Back to MFP today and planning b2b minis for my two working days on Tuesday and Wednesday. Good luck to anyone fasting today x

Bestbees · 20/04/2020 08:32

Hi everyone.
I did 5.2 very successful a few years ago and then been off and in the band wagon using to keep me a a sensible weight. However this year has been very bad food wise. I literally cannot stop eating. That, plus damage to my hamstrings (thought it was my back and was in such agony!) And then now we are shielding my vulnerable husband, has result in me being 10.7 the heaviest I have ever been unless pregnant. So back on it today.
Plan:
Joe wicks pe with kids
Lunch bowl of asparagus soup
Dinner homemade chili and cabbage
Snack if needed 10 nuts
Yoga in the evening.
Hard with 6 year old twin boys and a husband who can eat for England and still be a rake. I am a roundshorty (5.3) so need to be disciplined. Help me !!

DietChic · 20/04/2020 09:18

Fasting today - all prepped I think and ready to go. I’m looking forward to tomorrow already!

No breakfast, sausages for lunch and a steak and salad this evening.

BigChocFrenzy · 20/04/2020 10:07

Welcome back, Bestbees
Hopefully the structure of 2 weekly FDs will get you back on track

That's good you can sts when relaxing, Sydney
You should be able to progress again now you're back on 5:2

I'm fasting today too
Good luck, emcla, Jcurve, Moan, Hands, InTheThick, Chic, Best
That's a busy Monday fasting gang today !

First day of slightly relaxed lockdown here (Germany)
so I'll fit in a 2nd walk today, looking out over a glorious sunny Rhine - gotta go now !
DIY Tabata & strength-training later today

OP posts:
Hellokitty105 · 20/04/2020 10:59

Hello, I’m going to join ... again. I’ve not posted on the threads for years but I swear by 5:2 and fasting. I’ll be catching up on the thread shortly.

I only have a stone to loose but I need some motivation! I’m a usual gym goer but a few weeks before lock down began I had a break and now I regret it! I’ve started today by doing a Joe wicks work out and I’ll be going out on my bike later. Today is a fast day and I’m going to try alternate day fasting for this week just to kick start then I’ll review next week! Once I’m in the right frame of mind I can do it I just need to get there again. 5:2 has always worked for me, I’ve just found in recent months that life has derailed me and I need to get back into the swing of things. Hopefully following the thread will help.

harriethoyle · 20/04/2020 14:34

Hi all! I'm back on the thread after a hiatus - hope you are all OK and surviving in these odd times.

Have been 5:2ing during lockdown and finding the normal structure of the fasting WOL really helpful in keeping me on track generally. Have converted by OH to the cause which makes it MUCH easier. Am also doing online PT 5 x week, far more than I manage on a normal work week - 8am in the morning for 30 minutes and sets me right up for the day! NSV yesterday when I got my 28 inch jeans done up for the first time this year.

Fast day today and I am starving and cold and tired. Just going to be one to be got through!

SausageCrush · 20/04/2020 15:45

Hi everyone.
The current situation has completely thrown me off balance and I've been comfort eating Blush
Ive been overweight most of my adult life, but had a health scare last year which resulted in me being shocked into losing weight. I have lost two and a half stone and was doing really well - until lockdown. I have put on about half a stone.
I am determined not to pile on the weight again and have started up again today with a fast day.

BigChocFrenzy · 20/04/2020 16:10

Good luck, kitty, harriet, sausage
Wow, a lot of people have chosen Monday, the more the merrier ! Smile

OP posts:
DietChic · 20/04/2020 19:24

Well - I was done but then when I looked at MFP I realised the calorie info for the sausages was completely wrong. So the kitchen is closed at 630 - SO annoying. So I might have to do a B2B tomorrow instead.

I’ll survive but quite annoying!

HandsDownRoundTheTown · 20/04/2020 19:29

Hi everyone

Hope you had a good Monday. Well done FDers - one down, one to go.

I fasted today - black coffee and loads of water until tea time and then stew with bacon, lentils and loads of veg. Feeling pretty full now but just need to fend off the urge to eat chocolate and sweets all evening.

Still haven’t got a good exercise routine set up. I should have more time now I’m not commuting....

jcurve · 20/04/2020 19:37

How did everyone go? I stuck to my FD routine & have survived another day, although it is that time of the month and I feel pretty grim (endometriosis). Haven’t done any exercise but I’ll jump on the exercise bike later for 20 minutes.

ToesAndFingersCrossed · 20/04/2020 19:59

Hello, I’m new and a bit nervous!

I did 5:2 about 6 years ago really successfully, not so much to loose weight but to feel better about myself. Re-downloaded MyFitnessPal again and I weigh exactly 10kg more than my last recorded weight Shock I have had 2 kids since then but still.

I’m 163cm and weigh 80kg. Exactly the same as I weighed when 9 months pregnant with my youngest and he’s 18 months old now so I really can’t pretend it’s baby weight any more. I’ve been doing couch to 5k so will keep up with that on NFDs. I need to find a calorie intake that works for me on FDs as I’m breastfeeding but I think 1000 is too much considering he’s 18 months now and I’ve been BF for 4 years straight so I think it’s my body’s “normal”.

So jumping in with both feet really, might as well make tomorrow my first fast day!

emcla · 20/04/2020 21:17

Well done everyone and welcome to all new people. Fast day completed here too and two walks. Relaxing now with a cup of tea.

StripeyLurcher · 20/04/2020 21:54

Hi everyone I have quite a lot of weight to lose, bmi is 38. I have lost a lot weight in the past and then regained it all so I really want something I can make a long term way of life.

I have several problems holding me back, I find it hard to commit to a plan, if I don't lose much weight or it gets tough I tend to give up. I have also been worrying about how my weight will affect my chances of surviving Covid19 if I get it, this has left me half wanting to do something very strict and lose weight as fast as I can and half wanting to comfort eat all day, especially as I am finding lockdown a bit boring as I am only working a few hours a week now.

I love the idea of 5:2 with 5 days of normal eating as that seems so sustainable, but I guess my normal diet is not that healthy and I tend to overeat a lot. So I don't know how easy that will be to change that and then also do the two fast days, so perhaps this is going to be more of a challenge that it sounds.

Regarding covid19 my thought was that the health benefits of fasting might help fight Covid as I have read it is a good way to help some of the other health problems that can lead you to be vulnerable to Covid, like diabetes and high blood pressure. So even if it takes a long time to lose the weight maybe the fasting will still help. What is your take on that?

BrioLover · 20/04/2020 23:45

Hope everyone's FDs went well today.

Mine will be tomorrow. I've not eaten that well over the weekend and can feel it so kind of looking forward to it. Kind of.

Bestbees · 21/04/2020 07:15

Morning! Fast day went well here. Aiming for between 500-800 just so that I have flexibility and finished in at around 600 so pleased with that. Seems like there are some other newbies around which is cool, hello! Feeling ok this morning so will try not to eat until lunch which is early here because if the kids. Will be a delicious omlette and tomato salad. If I can manage that I will have some Greek yogurt and berries.

Brio good luck for today.

Stripey I am no expert but I think if I was you I wouldnt over think it. I would just plan carefully two days a week of 500-800 Cal's. Do that for a couple of weeks then reassess. You will find your appetite decreases. Then you might naturally east less on NFD. Or you might decide to then eat tdee on week days and be more relaxed at weekend. or skip breakfast every day. Or whatever. But I find if I try and make too many changes at once I give up. However if I get one good change then it leads to others.

Well done on your fast days people!

Toast hi! Why not try a week with two FD of 1000, then shave them down so that you find your sweet spot?

Down 2lb this morning which I know is mostly waterweight. Will have a weigh in day of after second fast day as I find that motivating.

moonlight1705 · 21/04/2020 07:54

I'm back on my first FD today since before Easter so will really concentrate upon it. I've got a good meal plan ready to go.

I think lots of water today will be key.

BigChocFrenzy · 21/04/2020 08:30

That's fine, Chic
Absolutely no need for a b2b

Well done on your FD, Chic, Hands, JCurve, emcla, best and all the other fasters

Good luck, moonlight That sounds a sensible plan

Welcome, Toes 🙂
For your BF, I recommend you start with the 800 FD version of 5:2
then review progress after 2-3 weeks

Welcome, STripey 🙂
During this crisis, we all need to support our immune system and too rapid weight loss from too extreme a weekly calories deficit - on any diet - might reduce that

So, I'd recommend safe and steady, with 2 FDs and eat around - not below - your TDEE on NFDs
That also makes this WOE more sustainable, so you are less likely to give up or binge on NFDs

The first couple of weeks might produce more weight loss, but don't worry, that would be mostly retained water
However, thereafter a steady 1 lb per week is best for most people at this time

However, for those starting at a BMI 35+
weight loss may still naturally be higher for several weeks, but that's OK when achieved with TDEE on NFDs

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 21/04/2020 08:32

Good luck on your FD too, Brio , Sydney and any other Tuesday fasters

OP posts:
swimmingdory · 21/04/2020 08:54

Hi

Thinking of trying 5/2.... trying to get control back, have added in some exercise but having two rest days, would you make these the fast days? Also, any rules particularly for fast days or can I make it simple to start with by using something like porridge and a ready meal?

DietChic · 21/04/2020 09:02

I’m doing another FD today after yesterday’s calorie confusion - slightly annoying but could be worse. So 650 is at my disposal - I think omelette for lunch probably and will work out what dinner is going to be later.

It’s ALL about the protein.

BigChocFrenzy · 21/04/2020 10:01

Swimming The only things that are "banned" on FDs are alcohol and junky food

Eat nourishing food with plenty of nutrients, that will best satisfy your individual bod on FDs for 500 or 800 calories, whichever FD system you choose

Most people find that boosting protein keeps you fuller for longer
and almost everyone finds high sugar or very high carbs causes higher overall hunger during the day

So you could have a small bowl of porridge with a few berries & cinammon for sweetness,
semi-skimmed or nut milk for some protein
and add a few flaked almonds, or maybe a small spoon of chia seeds

Typical breakfast cereal, or just fruit on its own would spike insulin and likely make you crash out of an FD with hunger

OP posts:
swimmingdory · 21/04/2020 10:04

Ok thanks. I need to have a better look / read I think. Just looking for convenience during the early part I guess but see what you're saying about porridge. More of a Keto sort of approach to fast days then I guess

StripeyLurcher · 21/04/2020 10:40

Thanks everyone I am trying a FD today bestbees I hope my appetite does reduce after a few FDs and it will then be easier to eat "normally" on the NFD.
I am going to try to follow the advice on this thread and stick to 3 fairly healthy meals a day on my nfd but I don't want to feel I can never eat pie again (My dh works at Higgidy pies factory and sometimes brings home a lovely quiche) or some biscuits or cake or chips. My tdee is 1750 atm so not that high but I could fit in the foods I like if I can just be sensible and limit my portions. I mean having cake twice a week or something, instead of twice a day Blush.

bigchoc thanks for your advice, the covid is such a worry I nearly started on a meal replacement shake plan, but having gone through the upset of regaining weight once I don't want to do that again it was so bad for my mental health and I do think the rapid weight loss and unsustainable diet was partly to blame. It's helpful to think that losing weight more slowly can be supporting the immune system and hopefully eating more healthily and fasting will help too.

BigChocFrenzy · 21/04/2020 11:00

swimming No need to go as far as keto;
most people progress well on most kinds of food preferences, providing they are high nutrient and adequate in protein

Just on FDs, base each meal around protein & plenty of veg, avoid oily / creamy sauces - say just a teasp olive oil if you wish -

Optionally a small portion of slow burn carbs is fine for most people
e.g. 1 slice of (preferably 100% wholemeal or rye) bread or up to 100 g cooked weight of potato

Avoid mash potato though - much higher GI than boiled or baked

Useful is the "resistant starch" trick:
i.e. cook a starch like potato or pasta, then let it cool and eat it cold or reheated
The insulin impact is much reduced

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