Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 89: Believe in yourself and your goals. You are braver than you think, more talented than you know, and capable of more than you imagine

972 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 31/01/2020 14:24

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" to maintain on the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally"
means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had past diagnosed Eating Disorders or serious MH problems you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below if you need a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: Mosely TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Ideal Weight & Body Frame Size: Calc Wt Frame
Body Fat: BFat Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body types ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Units Cals

FD Recipes:
Mosely LowCarb , low carb Diet Doc
BBC Good Food 52 , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Foodie Under 200 Cals
Vegetarian ,

FD Ready Meals, Fast Food

Any Day:
Meal Planner

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
11
ListeningQuietly · 05/02/2020 19:26

No idea what the calories were but green lentils in tomato sauce from Delia's Frugal Food with a dash of cheddar on top has left me stuffed Smile

BigChocFrenzy · 05/02/2020 20:29

I've been out all day, to enjoy the sun and explore some shops
The Rhine has flooded some of the footpath Shock - maybe because of the monsoon the last several days

I was too busy to eat before, so just had a lovely supper at my fave Rhine cafe
It's run by a master Patisserie chef who also creates the most marvellous soups & breads
Today he did a tomato & chilli soup, which sounds simple, but he produced such a rich taste & vibrant colour of the tomato.
Gorgeous, with a big egg salad for main and his special rich choc tart for pud.

Well done, MrD, Lania, Listening and any other Wednesday fasters
Sounds qwik'n easy, yum & nutritious, listening

Resist the office temptations, Sydney
"Communal food - especially from DC ! - has poo crumbs & snot smears !" 💩 😂

For future FDs, if you like an ice lolly-type pud, I recommend frozen seedless grapes, or - more filling because of the fibre - frozen pomegranate seeds

I hope you feel better tomorrow, badger, book
Don't fast if you don't feel up to it - health is our priority on this WOL

Support your immune system instead with a healthy NFD:
no booze, no junky treats, no snacks, just reasonably nutritious meals with plenty of veg & some fruit.

Invest in TCL for yourself - keep drinking water, stay warm and try to get more sleep

OP posts:
SydneyCarton · 05/02/2020 21:22

BigChoc Consider them resisted! I am back in the office on Friday rather than wfh as usual, so I might have a party ring if there’s any left. FD finished on 555; had the sweet potato chilli in a wrap with a small spoonful of sour cream and salsa, then a cup of tea and a biscuit.

Weigh in tomorrow, would be great to be 9 st something but I think I’ll be happy to just stay the same. My “thin” trousers are fitting me comfortably still which is a good benchmark Smile

BigChocFrenzy · 05/02/2020 21:37

Well done, Sydney on resisting temptation and nailing your FD

Good luck tomorrow and to anyone else doing a weigh-in Smile

OP posts:
Igglepigglesgrubbyblanket · 05/02/2020 21:39

Well done Wednesday fasters. NFD for me today, feel like I've eaten a bit too much, too much snacking, but I did enjoy it! Second fast day tomorrow. Meals all planned in advance & don't have to cook for the kids except their breakfast.

OohMrDarcy · 05/02/2020 21:54

Well done all

harriethoyle · 05/02/2020 22:35

Excellent Wednesday-ing everyone! I only got in from work an hour ago Confused and have accidentally done a mini because I was too busy to eat...! So rather than FD tomorrow I think I'm going to mini again.

HandsDownRoundTheTown · 05/02/2020 23:48

Well done all on a strong Wednesday. More than halfway to the weekend. I was on a NFD today. Made a lovely salad bowl with avo, spinach, falafel and hummus that I think could easily be reduced down for an FD.

emcla · 06/02/2020 06:36

Well done all fasters. Awake since 5 am. Has anyone else noticed that they need less sleep when fasting?

Whattodowithaminute · 06/02/2020 07:28

Well done to the Wednesday FD crew hope you’re all rewarded with lots of SV.
FD here, not really feeling it-low level cold in the family and I feel a bit whacked so maybe brewing something. Planned chicken noodle soup for dinner tonight, will do coffee, water and bovril before then.
Good luck to Thursday fasters.

Laniakea · 06/02/2020 07:55

Morning! NFD here, dd1 & I are off to see the Troy exhibition at the British museum & have will have lunch somewhere.

Also SV (after b2b fast days it’s artificial but I won’t weigh again for a few weeks so ... ) I’ve broken the 10 stone barrier! 9st 13 exactly :D BMI is 25.4 ... goal weight is 122-125 so another stone to go.

emcla · 06/02/2020 08:23

Well done laniakea. Sounds like you have a lovely day plan. That’s great news on your Sv.

Whattodo I hope you feel better soon.

I am hoping to do another fd. Good luck to all Thursday fasters !

moonlight1705 · 06/02/2020 08:39

I am very jealous of your plans laniakea , really want to see that exhibition but don't have the time to go down to London at the moment. When does it finish? Well done on the SV as well.

I'm joining you emcla today on a FD. It might be quite easy today as I've got website training all day so will not be able to even think about snacks. Smile

Laniakea · 06/02/2020 08:46

It finishes on March 8th moonlight ... we’re planning to see the impressionist one afterwards.

Igglepigglesgrubbyblanket · 06/02/2020 09:04

Hi moonlight & emcla, joining you on FD here too. Coffee for me, bean tagine and the leftover fajita stuff and lettuce for tea. Good luck all

SydneyCarton · 06/02/2020 09:17

Well done lania. I’d forgotten about the Troy exhibition, must make time for that. DP and I are seeing the Tutankhamun exhibition next week, very excited about that.

10 st 1 lb today so one pound up. Bit disappointing but could have been worse. Good luck to anyone fasting today; it’s cold here!

Whattodowithaminute · 06/02/2020 09:23

Well done lania sounds like you have a great day planned.
I have aborted my FD already-will make it a healthy day instead.
Good luck to other fasters!

OohMrDarcy · 06/02/2020 09:31

Morning all

NFD for me

Bit miffed as did a check in on the scales and I've managed to gain weight since last week. Not the end of the world as I know I was feeling rough last weekend so we ate a bit more junk than normal (as a meal not snacking) but with being away I've not eaten as well as I could have and definitely not drunk enough water. Aced yesterday so am back in full swing.

Todays focus is plenty of water and decent meals. I think last week I may have been a bit too strict which has made it unsustainable and made me crave stuff - so eating up to TDEE for a week (except on FDs obviously) .

Even though I'm a little miffed I'm also just using it all as learning opportunities. I'm 13 months into regular fasting and I want to make it a lifetime commitment. I'm not always going to make perfect choices and if I'm going to make the weightloss permanent I need to learn as I go. In 2 weeks I'll be in spain for a few days and because I'm not where I had hoped to be by then I'm going to carry on as normal out there. Its not a holiday as such - just me visiting my parents so will fast once whilst I'm out there.

Anyway - waffle over, congrats on the SV Lania!

harriethoyle · 06/02/2020 11:13

@emcla yes I definitely find it harder to get to sleep on a fast day or I wake up early the next day. I feel far more wide awake in the evenings!

@OohMrDarcy think of it as a marathon not a sprint. When I've had a junk filled weekend I always get straight on the scales and assess asap because then I find it motivating to see the damage being rectified in the following week's fasts if that makes sense? Ie I had a hugely indulgent last weekend. Got on the scales Monday morning, winced at the 2kg weight gain but inwardly cheered this morning when 2 fd and a mini had got it off. If I hadn't I would have felt depressed that, apparently 2 FDs and a mini had led to no change in my weight since last week... iyswim

BigChocFrenzy · 06/02/2020 11:21

Congratulations on your SV, Lania
and breaking into the 9 stone somethings
It may be after a b2b, but by your next weigh-in it'll probably be your norm after NFDs

I hope you feel better soon, Iggle

Sounds a good plan, Harriet

Good luck today, what, Iggle, Harriet, emcla, moon

Don't worry, MrD You're back on track now
What matters is what you do longterm, not the occasional indulgent couple of days.

Anyway, weight can naturally fluctuate a couple of lb from day to day, even if you do everything perfectly,
because our bodies are not computers

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 06/02/2020 11:23

emcla The extra alertness when fasting is thought to be an old evolutionary reaction, ramping up your ability to find food when it is scarce

OP posts:
emcla · 06/02/2020 11:36

Thanks bigchoc. A fountain of knowledge as usual. Hope you are adjusting well to your retirement.

BigChocFrenzy · 06/02/2020 12:07

Revelling in it, emcla ! 😁

OP posts:
moonlight1705 · 06/02/2020 19:52

Finished the day on 600, feeling very full after dinner but am off out to rehearsals so won't be tempted the snack.

emcla · 06/02/2020 19:56

Good on you bigchoc. Hope all Thursday fasters are doing well. Nearly there guys ! I had a carrot and lentil soup at lunchtime. Went for a walk at lunch and another 35 minute walk after work. Having a home made healthy pizza for dinner at 7. Minimum cheese on mine 😜

Swipe left for the next trending thread