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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 89: Believe in yourself and your goals. You are braver than you think, more talented than you know, and capable of more than you imagine

972 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 31/01/2020 14:24

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" to maintain on the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally"
means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had past diagnosed Eating Disorders or serious MH problems you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below if you need a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: Mosely TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Ideal Weight & Body Frame Size: Calc Wt Frame
Body Fat: BFat Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body types ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Units Cals

FD Recipes:
Mosely LowCarb , low carb Diet Doc
BBC Good Food 52 , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Foodie Under 200 Cals
Vegetarian ,

FD Ready Meals, Fast Food

Any Day:
Meal Planner

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
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BigChocFrenzy · 31/01/2020 14:25

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Grin Everyone welcome to 5:2 thread # 89 ! Grin
We’re a very friendly bunch; come join us

FAQs & tips in the OP

"HOW TO START" section has

  • Tips & FAQs
  • FD & NFD recipes
  • Meal planner
  • Body Goal Visualisers
  • Calculators for TDEE, Body Fat, Frame Size, Ideal Weight Range, Daily Alcohol Units & Cals

"Scientific Evidence for Health & Fasting" is at the end of the OP and includes links to peer-reviewed science papers

🚴 🚴 🚴 🚴 🚴 🚴 🚴 🚴 🚴 🚴 🚴 🚴 🚴 🚴 🚴 🚴 🚴 🚴 🚴 🚴 🚴 🚴

OP posts:
EssentialHummus · 31/01/2020 14:41

Getting in early with a placemark Grin. Thank you for the new thread bcf. NFD for me today, though it's inadvertently going to be a 16:8 I think.

Hope DD is on the mend soon moonlight. Well done harriet and good luck to the Friday fasters.

moonlight1705 · 31/01/2020 14:55

Me too hummus - didn't end up having anything to eat until 12.30 but I am going out to dinner tonight so feel like I've saved a few calories for that.

Thanks for the new thread bcf - perhaps by the end of this thread I'll be under a BMI of 40.

appletart99 · 31/01/2020 15:01

Hi! Can I join? Did 5:2 when I wanted to lose the baby weight from my second baby and I loved it. Felt it was the only diet I could sustain and it really worked.

Question- I am bf twins. They are 13 wks. Should I wait a bit? Or is it ok to start now. My tummy rolls are depressing me but I know I need to be sensible... and if it's ok to start now, would it work to say have 1200 (or even 1500) cals on fasting days? Ta in advance

harriethoyle · 31/01/2020 16:07

Checking in! Wine

Whattodowithaminute · 31/01/2020 16:22

Checking in on new thread (thanks bcf!) this one I will reach a normal BMI...(following earlier advice regarding affirmations Wink)
NFD and out tonight. Looks like I should still maintain within TDEE though.
Welcome apple serious respect on BF twins. 13 weeks sounds very early to me I’m sure bigchoc will have much more advice on this than I can offer!

Laniakea · 31/01/2020 17:31

place marking - thanks for the thread bcf.

Fasting today - have enough calories left for a miso soup before bed but other than that I'm done. I'm sooooooo hungry :'( .... currently cooking lovely homemade pizza for everyone else & am desperate for a large slice & a glass of red. Will resist though ... my clothes are getting loose again which feels nice.

Incredibly stressful week - medical stuff, tax stuff, insurance stuff ... nothing resolved all annoying & worrying & now the exhaust has gone on the car [scream]

BookSkark · 31/01/2020 17:40

Checking in for a new thread. I like the suggestion of eating the TDEE of your goal weight, that seems to make it more like a new WOE from the start.

Although maybe not tonight as we're off out for dinner - and out a lot of the weekend as well. Will just have to keep an eye on intake for the rest of the day and hope it all balances out.

HandsDownRoundTheTown · 31/01/2020 19:50

Hello all on new thread!

I’ve been on and off the 5/2 wagon but currently on and loving it.

I am doing Mon and Tues FDs and aiming for lots of veg and low-ish sugar the rest of the week.

Hold firm Laniakea - that is hard. Love pizza!

Thanks BigChoc for gathering us all again.

80skid · 31/01/2020 20:10

Evening everyone. It's a Friday FD for me and I wondered if anyone wanted to share their FD killer low calorie winners?
For me, sauerkraut from Aldi rocking in at 13kcal/100g and pickled gerkins at 29kcal/100g. Eggs and carrots feature quite a lot on FDs too, as does broccoli. And no, I'm not pregnant!!!
Have a lovely weekend everyone Grin

Laniakea · 31/01/2020 20:15

Because I’m feeling glum (I did resist the pizza but it was hard!) ... some motivation. There aren’t many pictures of fat me - the before picture was 5.5 years ago & the after was this morning. I was not at my heaviest in the before picture. Thank you IF!

5:2 Thread number 89: Believe in yourself and your goals. You are braver than you think, more talented than you know, and capable of more than you imagine
PreseaCombatir · 31/01/2020 20:16

Ooh this thread is so apt for me, I’ve just decided to go back on it after putting on nearly two stone, I’m nearly back to my heaviest, after losing so much on 5:2 about 2 years ago.

PreseaCombatir · 31/01/2020 20:19

Wow Laniakea that’s incredible

Laniakea · 31/01/2020 20:27

That’s the first time I’ve looked at pictures side by side. It’s crazy, I don’t recognise myself but equally I’m not used to my size. I never pick the right size when I buy clothes ... I always try stuff that’s too big.

Mentally I feel like me again though. I was really fat for about 10 years, it wasn’t a moral failing but I am so so much happier to feel normal.

EssentialHummus · 31/01/2020 20:34

Wow lania good work!

80skid · 31/01/2020 21:10

Wow @Laniakea ! How long have you been dieting? Is this all 5:2 or have you done other things along the way? Great motivation thanks

BigChocFrenzy · 31/01/2020 21:12

Back from my team retirement bash
very enjoyable evening with a lovely bunch of blokes 😁

Fantastic transformation that you have achieved, Lania
A great reason to pat yourself on the back and be cheerful

Welcome, apple 🙂
13 weeks is very early, so I recommend you start with just 1 weekly FD for the next couple of weeks and see how you feel.
EBFers should do 1000 cal FDs, but if you find that too tough, don't worry, just ease your way in with a few more calories

Welcome too, Presea 🙂
and good luck

80s On FDs, useful accompaniments

  • cauliflour rice
  • 1 level tbsp chia seeds (only once per day)
  • veg curry
  • frozen

Standby meals:

  • prawn & veg stirfry
  • salmon fillet strips / steak strips & mixed salad with balsamic vinegar
  • butternut & chickpea stew
OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 31/01/2020 21:19

Focus on your goal moonlight
You have the tools to achieve it and you have the will & strength

You too, what
You are on track for that healthy BMI class

Not long to go, Friday fasters
I recommend you drink some water now and then clean your teeth, to remove any tempation to nibble

book Eating to "goal TDEE" is something you can try for say 1 NFD per week

OP posts:
Laniakea · 31/01/2020 21:33

just fasting - I did 5:2 for about 9 months when I turned 40 (I'm 45 in a couple of weeks) and lost quite a lot - about three stone I think but was still very overweight. Then, for various reasons, I put most of it back on until I was over 16 stone Christmas 2018. I'm hovering around 10 now & lost that weight between the last two Christmases.

I've mostly done 4:3 with a couple of periods of ADF & I did the 800 calorie blood sugar diet for a month too (just because I was bored!).

I eat a lot of pickles, sauerkraut, miso soup, rye bread & stilton!

Laniakea · 31/01/2020 21:44

I am 1000000% more active too. I have a problem with my hip atm but still average 15k steps a day even when I'm not 'doing exercise'. When I would previously graze or comfort eat I now go for a walk or do yoga - that's much easier now my children are older.

I never eat my exercise calories & on NFD I try to eat the calories I would be allowed at goal weight. Never ever snack & I haven't drunk regularly for two years (too many calories, it makes me want to snack & makes me feel depressed/anxious which means I comfort eat). I've saved a fortune!

Laniakea · 31/01/2020 21:46

congratulations on your retirement BigChoc! Bash sounds good Grin

appletart99 · 31/01/2020 22:22

Laniakea that photo is phenomenal. Congrats! Glad you feel more like you again. I was amazed at how much better I felt when I lost the weight, so it spurred me on to do it again.

BigChoc thanks for the advice. Will try one day and see how I go. I probably could try just stopping stuffing my face with chocolate whilst using bf as an excuse, but somehow I haven't....think I need the goal of a set amount of cals to prevent me doing that. Was wondering if I could sneak a few more cals in as I am ebf twins but I will try 1000 once a wk for now and see how that goes.

It's great to have found you all - will def make me more likely to do it Smile

moonlight1705 · 01/02/2020 09:38

I'm another 0.5kg down which is good, on track for my target at Easter Smile

I'm in awe laniakea at the difference in just 5 years although your list of go to foods are my idea of hell, I really hate pickles. Grin

How is everyone doing today?

Laniakea · 01/02/2020 09:40

congrats on the SV moonlight ... my family are repulsed by my food choices Grin

BigChocFrenzy · 01/02/2020 11:29

Well done on your SV, moon

I recommend you also have lots of mini-goals, say each 10 lb / 5kg, each stone,
so you can celebrate several times and choose non-food rewards for each - MrD thinks up some fab ones

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