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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 89: Believe in yourself and your goals. You are braver than you think, more talented than you know, and capable of more than you imagine

972 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 31/01/2020 14:24

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" to maintain on the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally"
means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had past diagnosed Eating Disorders or serious MH problems you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below if you need a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: Mosely TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Ideal Weight & Body Frame Size: Calc Wt Frame
Body Fat: BFat Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body types ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Units Cals

FD Recipes:
Mosely LowCarb , low carb Diet Doc
BBC Good Food 52 , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Foodie Under 200 Cals
Vegetarian ,

FD Ready Meals, Fast Food

Any Day:
Meal Planner

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
11
Ohyesiam · 01/02/2020 17:04

Laniakea what can I say? WoW! You are such an inspiration.

Would love to hear from MrD about non food goals for Sv mini targets.

My next mini target is 13.5 stone. When I weighted last week I was 13 stone 10.
Aiming for 10, maybe 10.5 stone in the long run.

BCF thanks for your advice to eat up to my TDEE, it’s an exciting and challenging thought. I think I’m going to give it a go.

Igglepigglesgrubbyblanket · 01/02/2020 17:23

Does anyone have any recommendations of ready meals at around the 300 calorie mark? Ideally something I can get from ocado or Sainsbury's.

EssentialHummus · 01/02/2020 17:43

iggle soups are always a good bet around that calorie mark.

Igglepigglesgrubbyblanket · 01/02/2020 20:44

Thanks hummus x

OP posts:
Igglepigglesgrubbyblanket · 02/02/2020 09:35

Thanks big choc, I've ordered them! Will report back on whether they're nice or not!

PreseaCombatir · 02/02/2020 11:29

I’m quite good during the week, but for some reason keep eating loads of sweets on the weekend. I ate 4 mini packets of skittles yesterday, I wasn’t even hungry Hmm
I’m hoping after I get into the swing of things, I’ll stop fancying it. Although tbf, I had just come on, and always seem to crave sugar when I do

HandsDownRoundTheTown · 02/02/2020 19:24

Presea - sweets are also my downfall. I usually allow myself one or two then brush my teeth and chuck the rest of the packet. wasteful, I know.

ZazuMoon · 02/02/2020 21:58

appletart99 I am also bf; not twins though! I’ve been sticking to 1000 cal FD and so far has really helped boost my weight loss and still maintained my milk supply.

I managed two FD last week and will either fast tomorrow or Tuesday.

Hopefully February will be another successful and healthy month for everyone. I lost 5lb in total in January which I was very pleased with as my weight loss had really slowed down in December.

itsmeagainagain · 02/02/2020 23:28

Hi everyone have enjoyed reading through and wow Laniakea what an inspiration you are! I'm fasting tomorrow anyone else?

Whattodowithaminute · 03/02/2020 07:29

laniakea another one here who is seriously impressed with your transformation well done.
I’m joining you today for FD itsme anyone else with us? badger?

Igglepigglesgrubbyblanket · 03/02/2020 07:45

First fast day for me tomorrow. Good luck those fasting today x

Gruntysaurus · 03/02/2020 08:26

Fast here today. Doing well so far

EssentialHummus · 03/02/2020 08:27

I’m here what and itsme. Just coffee so far, planning a stir fry for lunch and, er, another stir fry for dinner. All about variety, me Grin. Good luck to you both.

EssentialHummus · 03/02/2020 08:28

And grunty! Whoops, x-post.

harriethoyle · 03/02/2020 08:29

I'm fasting too!! Doing a b2b I think x

BigChocFrenzy · 03/02/2020 08:47

Good luck on your FD today, Itsme, What, grunty, hummus, harriet and any other Monday fasters

I'm fasting too
I've a gym class shortly and later will do evening spin, also a Rhine walk if the rain holds off

That's fab progress, Zazu
Good luck for February

OP posts:
BookSkark · 03/02/2020 09:04

Morning all! Just checking in for a Monday FD. Plan is haddock and ham gratin for tea with much veg, which leaves me about 150 calories for the rest of the day.

Off to the fridge to fill up my water glass.....

Good luck to all the Monday fasters!

Laniakea · 03/02/2020 12:41

Planning to fast tomorrow, Wednesday & Saturday. I’m going out for lunch with my eldest (her treat! What fun having an adult child :D ) on Thursday so need the extra fast day!

I finally have an appointment with the orthopaedic surgeon re my hip (next week!) it’s been painful since July - I’m sick of it now Angry

SydneyCarton · 03/02/2020 12:51

Checking in for a Monday, and on the new thread. Tea and water during the day - dinner will be an M&S beef in black bean sauce from a meal deal (it looks pretty small for two people even from a FD perspective Hmm) with some rice and probably soya beans from the freezer. Good luck to everyone else fasting today Flowers

noseovertail · 03/02/2020 16:38

Afternoon everyone, thanks for the new thread bcf I need to catch up on the end of the last. Have been nonstop since Friday, had my leaving lunch and drinks, then weekend was ds 9th birthday celebrations and had visitors all weekend, and today I started in my new post.... I'm exhausted! Got another meal out tonight so will probably catch up tomorrow. Just marking my place Grin

BigChocFrenzy · 03/02/2020 16:45

Good luck with the new job, nose
Try to fit in some early nights; your body needs more sleep.

Good luck with your FD today, book, sydney

OP posts:
harriethoyle · 03/02/2020 17:13

Forgot my packed lunch... idiot! Had a pret egg sandwich for 362 calories. Heading home to a spicy lidl bean burger in a mini wrap for c.320 cals which is fine for a b2b imho Grin

Gruntysaurus · 03/02/2020 18:28

Toddler in full terrible twos mode this afternoon nearly made me turn to the chocolate cake she made with her daddy yesterday. I told him to hide it somewhere where I can't see it. Who knows where it is now 😂

EssentialHummus · 03/02/2020 18:52

grunty yes , and toddlers taking up baking is a whole other thing in this house too!

How are others doing? I’ve found today ok so far and am about to have another stir fry of pak choi, mushrooms and peppers.

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