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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 89: Believe in yourself and your goals. You are braver than you think, more talented than you know, and capable of more than you imagine

972 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 31/01/2020 14:24

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" to maintain on the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally"
means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had past diagnosed Eating Disorders or serious MH problems you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below if you need a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: Mosely TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Ideal Weight & Body Frame Size: Calc Wt Frame
Body Fat: BFat Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body types ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Units Cals

FD Recipes:
Mosely LowCarb , low carb Diet Doc
BBC Good Food 52 , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Foodie Under 200 Cals
Vegetarian ,

FD Ready Meals, Fast Food

Any Day:
Meal Planner

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
11
Whattodowithaminute · 03/02/2020 18:58

grunty that’s brilliant-great that DH is so supportive, toddlers are infuriating and amazing in equal measure! You can have the cake tomorrow -if you can find it Grin-
harriet well done on a successful save of the day!!
Good luck with the new job nose sounds like you’ve had loads on your plate so an early night and some nurturing will help you recover I’m sure.
Hope that beef does the trick sydney!
I haven’t eaten yet and it will be 9pm before I do-still have my Monday PT session to get through and then spicy pork mince lettuce cups with pak Choi and some rice-should come in at 475. Pleased with that as wasn’t really feeling it this morning! Have a catch up with old work colleagues on Wednesday-haven’t seen most of them since May last year, have lost over 20lbs since then so hoping/wondering if they will notice!

Whattodowithaminute · 03/02/2020 18:59

Doh strike through fail apologies...

ListeningQuietly · 03/02/2020 19:09

Have decided to rejoin these threads and get some motivation back to get to my proper weight in time for my birthday after Easter.

I'm only 4 kg over that but the grey weather and the news have knocked my motivation sideways.
That and I've been coughing since before Christmas (normal virus thanks to University age children)

So, I shall stick to my usual 16:8
but be MUCH stricter with myself about portions and the demon Wine and Gin

THe days are getting longer.
It will all be OK.

BookSkark · 03/02/2020 19:25

Kitchen closing here on 495. Not a great day - I found a sachet of cup a soup for lunch, but it just didn't have enough protein to keep me going so I've been starving all afternoon. But I stuck with it, so will have an early night and avoid temptation!

Congratulations to all those who successfully fasted today and welcome back Listening!

harriethoyle · 03/02/2020 19:46

Welcome back @ListeningQuietly and well done for resisting temptation @BookSkark

@Whattodowithaminute I am VERY impressed with FD exercise.

Kitchen closed here on 690, leaving me 610 for tomorrow. Should be doable if I actually remember my packed lunch! Grin

harriethoyle · 03/02/2020 19:46

@EssentialHummus you're nearly at the finish line! Brew

itsmeagainagain · 03/02/2020 19:53

well done everyone who fasted!!!! I've just been drinking water, tea and herbal tea today as I find it easier to just not eat anything at all.... Had a teaspoon of marmite around 4 oclock and then a teaspoon of bouillon in hot water while everyone was eating their dinner and I'm feeling pretty good. Aiming for an early night with a book to keep me out of the biscuit tin and am planning a lovely sandwich to take to work tomorrow.

Gruntysaurus · 03/02/2020 19:57

essential she's big into her baking at the moment. She seems to like the making even more than the eating!!

What we're going on a cake hunt, we're gonna catch a big one, we're not scared 🤣

BigChocFrenzy · 03/02/2020 20:44

Welcome back ListeningQuietly
It's good to identify your demons 👹
Next step is to wield your 5:2 crucifix Grin

I hope the surgeon can quickly sort out treatment for your hip, Lania
That sort of nagging pain hinders exercise and drags you down

Well done on your FD, Book, Harriet, Grunty, Itsme
Not long to go for the other Monday fasters, nearly there Smile

A good substitute there, harriet

You did really well to nail a tough FD, Book
I recommend having some easy protein in the fridge in case of hard days, as an extra 60-100 cals won't matter in the long run, but makes life easier
So a boiled egg or a couple of slices of chicken, ham etc
If you dont need it on the FD, you can always have it as part of a meal, say breakfast, on the following NFD

Excellent cake resistance muscles Grunty
and MrGrunty is a star Star

I had a 3-course FD meal:

  • small veg soup (135 cals) & 5 olives (30 cals)
  • Frosta low carb chicken teriyaki with cauli rice & veg (240 cals)
  • 4 strawberries from a local farm (20 cals) It was at 3:30, so I'm not sure whether to call it an early tea or what !

I did a morning & evening class at the gym, but rain cancelled my usual Rhine walk
I had a protein shake made with water before evening spin, as I felt hungry
So about 625 cals, which is fine on maintenance

OP posts:
SydneyCarton · 03/02/2020 21:14

Finished on 667; I could have come in lower but was really craving something sweet, so I raided the dregs of the Christmas chocolate and had two mini Celebrations with a cup of tea. Beef wasn’t too stingy a portion after all, just enough chilli heat and a lot of crunchy water chestnuts.

My Apple Watch has given me an award Grin for a personal best of 88 minutes of brisk walking for today and I’ve burned 650 active calories, so feeling pretty pleased with that but also quite tired. Early bed I think. Well done to the other Monday fasters!

BigChocFrenzy · 03/02/2020 21:19

Well done on the FD and walking pb, Sydney

OP posts:
KillingEvenings · 03/02/2020 22:13

Well done to the monday fasters. Half way through my B2B. Had some yum courgetti with lentil ragu with a thin shaving of cheese. Very filling and satisfies my savoury cravings. Still, already thinking to tomorrows meal :S

HandsDownRoundTheTown · 03/02/2020 23:56

Hi all

I did a FD today which I think turned into a mini.

I turned up at work armed with homemade soup and steely reserves of fortitude to eat only that but I’d forgotten we had team lunch! Felt awful not going or not eating so I just ordered a grilled chicken salad and I really don’t think it was too bad in calories. No mayo or dressing.

Then struggled thru the rest of the day on an apple and a mini pack of Maltesers Blush.

Oh well. I’ve drunk tons of water and I do have that pleasantly empty “clean” tummy feeling so hopefully it’s not too far off a FD.

I’ll be back tomorrow for B2B. Super busy day tomorrow so am going to smash it!

Go Tuesday Fasters!

harriethoyle · 04/02/2020 07:17

Good morning troops! Anyone joining me and @HandsDownRoundTheTown today on a FD?

Igglepigglesgrubbyblanket · 04/02/2020 07:23

First fast today. Wish me luck!

moonlight1705 · 04/02/2020 07:30

Checking in for a Tuesday FD. Smile had a good weekend but think I had too much yesterday.

Will catch up with all your posts soon.

Laniakea · 04/02/2020 07:42

Fasting today.

I finished yesterday on 1380 plus two cups of tea with a tiny splash of skimmed milk. I shared a Ritter bar with dh which was a big chunk of calories - not ideal but whatevs!

80skid · 04/02/2020 07:46

All the best @Igglepigglesgrubbyblanket Grin. I hope the day goes well for you - what do you have planned?
I'm booking in for a FD too. Unfortunately I had to cancel my early spin class as hubby has to work early. This happens pretty regularly but is unavoidable. A busy day ahead but hopefully an early night too, we're all a little tired and under the weather in this house at the moment unfortunately.
Have a great day everyone!

aberjenagain · 04/02/2020 09:08

Morning all! Checking in quickly for a Tuesday fd, aiming for b2b tomorrow. Didn’t fast last week at all in the end, so need to get back into the swing of things this week!

Ohyesiam · 04/02/2020 11:29

I’m getting used to the strange sensation of eating to my TDEE. I’m do used to fasting or overeating. There are probably only a few times that I’veb Eastern the “ right “ amount. I felt really full after a meal on Sunday, which made me panic a little, then my belly felt fine after half an hour. Which must be what happens to normal eaters!
Had a good fast day yesterday, and then found myself feeling guilty about eating breakfast today. I keep reassuring myself it’s ok, you’re not meant to be starving!

BigChocFrenzy · 04/02/2020 11:55

That was a sensible choice, Hands
This WOL gives the flexibility to fit into your life - becoming a social hermit isn't sustainable

Good luck on your 1st FD, iggle Smile
How are you doing so far ?
Post anytime if you need moral support or advice

Good luck on the last bit of your b2b, killing
and to Harriet, Moon, Lania, 80s, aber and any other Tuesday fasters

Enjoy your NFD oh - and try to avoid guilt about food
The 5 NFDs are as important to many folk as the 2 FDs, because they help retrain your "normal" eating
You shouldn't feel starving or stuffed, so it sounds like you are developing more sensible habits for the longterm

OP posts:
harriethoyle · 04/02/2020 13:04

273 cals of lunch sandwich and I am freaking STARVING* still!! This is a tough FD...

*may be slightly over-exaggerating

moonlight1705 · 04/02/2020 13:38

Aww you can do this harriet - I find I'm hungrier if I am cold so have been having tea and plenty of water to keep me going.

What are you having later for dinner?

ListeningQuietly · 04/02/2020 13:42

Just knowing I have to check in under BigChocs watchful eye kept my lunch smaller than it would have been.
But I am mainlining tea today !

Whattodowithaminute · 04/02/2020 14:48

You can do it harriet stay strong... bovril to take the edge off?

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