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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 89: Believe in yourself and your goals. You are braver than you think, more talented than you know, and capable of more than you imagine

972 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 31/01/2020 14:24

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" to maintain on the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally"
means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had past diagnosed Eating Disorders or serious MH problems you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below if you need a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: Mosely TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Ideal Weight & Body Frame Size: Calc Wt Frame
Body Fat: BFat Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body types ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Units Cals

FD Recipes:
Mosely LowCarb , low carb Diet Doc
BBC Good Food 52 , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Foodie Under 200 Cals
Vegetarian ,

FD Ready Meals, Fast Food

Any Day:
Meal Planner

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
11
yumyumpoppycat · 10/04/2020 11:41

Gah I keep pressing post instead of return..

Thanks bigchoc good luck with your fast. Going well so far for me lots of exercise, quiet coffee in the garden and about ready to make my brunch then will do everyone else's lunch. So lovely not having to think about work or home schooling.

Big choc if I have a low day with a glass of wine then fast approx 800 tomorrow or Sunday what would be a good amount of cals 1100? Just keeping my options open 😂

Good luck any other Friday fasters. ☀️☀️🐣

BigChocFrenzy · 10/04/2020 13:19

yum If you want an NFD with wine, I'd suggest keep to one glass only and total calories within TDEE (don't eat back exercise cals)

  • it becomes too much like a daily diet if you try to have big deficits on NFDs too and wine means it's not any kind of fast day

(The Fast800 diet for 1-12 weeks has a very different mechanism to standard low calories dieting,
because 800 healthy calories and absolutely no junk or booze activates different pathways, cell repair etc)

OP posts:
Waspie · 10/04/2020 16:01

I hope your fast day is going well BCF and yumyum

Glorious weather here; I've been sitting in the garden teaching DS how to play backgammon Smile

yumyumpoppycat · 10/04/2020 18:47

Thanks waspie and big choc have decided to just fast properly and have a glass of wine tomorrow so just had lunch and kitchen closed other than a tea and or coffee.

Baking dd was back to her tricks and we made flapjacks- they look so tempting - maybe I will have one for breakfast!

Happy Friday everyone

BigChocFrenzy · 10/04/2020 21:32

Well done yum
Enjoy your breakfast tomorrow

FD finished
I did a quick burst of 2 Bowflex HIIT routines and some Tabatas, then had a sunny walk

If anyone hasn't the time for Joe Wicks or Shred, then Bowflex is just a few minutes per vid, good cardio workouts

OP posts:
yumyumpoppycat · 11/04/2020 09:39

Thanks bigchoc - good weigh in this morning, and dd's flapjacks were amazing for breakfast.

This link was shared in an exercise thread I am on for free workouts on the les mills site go.mumsnet.com/?xs=1&id=470X1554755&url=watch.lesmillsondemand.com/at-home-workouts I have a subscription but there is so much out there for free at the moment!

yumyumpoppycat · 11/04/2020 09:41

My link didn't work but if anyone is interested in the free workouts just check out les mills on demand website

BigChocFrenzy · 11/04/2020 14:09

well done on the weight, yum

Anyone having an FD or miniFD during the Easter period ?

OP posts:
Clutterfreeintraining · 13/04/2020 08:27

Morning everyone.

I’m on day 6 of a 7 day course of antibiotics so no fasting. However, I need to regain a bit of control so going to make healthier choices today and avoid snacking.

Good luck to any Monday fasters Smile

yumyumpoppycat · 13/04/2020 08:49

Clutter hope your healthy eating goes well today.

I thought I had a really good exercise and mini fast day yesterday but disappointing weigh in - sts as after nfd and up 1 lb on fri fast. I guess it's normal to sts sometimes but I have a lot to lose - will try and be more thorough with calorie counting on nfd and fast days.

Hope everyone had a happy easter weekend

DietChic · 13/04/2020 09:06

Hello!

I’m on the low carb thread but also thinking adding 5:2 will help as I have a habit of losing momentum when the weightless slows.

So FD today - one egg omelette for lunch, steak and salad for dinner.

Luckily WFH so plenty to distract me.

welshmumofboys · 13/04/2020 11:06

Hello!

I'm just having a read through some of your posts as I'm having my first fast day tomorrow. Planning on Tuesday and Thursday this week Smile I have 2-3 stone to lose and am fed up of being constantly on a diet so I'm hoping this changes my mindset a little.

BigChocFrenzy · 13/04/2020 12:45

Welcome, Welshmum 🙂 and good luck

On 5:2, you have 2 weekly FDs, "diet days" of 500 or 800 calories (your choice)
plus 5 NFDs, "maintenance days" when you eat sensibly and avoid eating back the FD deficit

Best to avoid the temptation of trying to diet on NFDs as well, because it's not sustainable
If you like a target, then aim to eat within TDEE on NFDs - not what mfp tells you for daily diets

Welcome, Chic 🙂
5:2 and low carb is a very effective combination
Many low carbers find after a while that they don't progress further, so need a way to reduce calories as well

Cutting out snacks is an important step, Clutter
I suggest you have 3-4 meals, nothing between

On NFDs, there should be no snacking between meals, EVER, even if you are not doing FDs,
so no snacking on weekends or holidays either once lockdown ends

OP posts:
Waspie · 13/04/2020 14:04

Hello all, I'm fasting today - my usual cup a soup for lunch and mushroom omelette with a salad for dinner. I haven't lost any weight for over a week but neither have I gained.

I don't really like chocolate so no fear of eating an entire large egg like DP did yesterday Shock

Anyone else fasting today? Good luck if you are!

badger82 · 13/04/2020 14:53

Looking forward to a fast day tomorrow. Feel bloated and full after over eating during hols.
Have had a few drinks here and there, cheese and wine in the eves and lots of BBQs.
Fasting Tues and Thurs this week, expect to STS this week overall

BigChocFrenzy · 13/04/2020 18:07

Good luck, Waspie
How are you doing so far today ?

Sounds like resuming 2 FDs this week would be a good plan, badger

OP posts:
DietChic · 13/04/2020 20:52

501 today - a lot of careful weighing of lettuce.

FD1 of the week done and going to bed with a book.

Next one is probably Weds I think.

Happy fasting for anyone doing it tomorrow. It always does feel like the best tool to cure overindulgence immediately.

BigChocFrenzy · 13/04/2020 23:11

Great FD1, Chic
You sound fully back in the fasting swing

OP posts:
yumyumpoppycat · 14/04/2020 10:10

Wow I am very impressed with lettuce weighing diet chic - well done on first week.

Planning mini fast but have had post workout breakfast already so suspect it will be closer to 1000 than 800. Will aim to log carefully. Yesterday was not good but let's draw a line under it! Typically the scales barely moved so I am guessing that balances out the disappointing post fd weigh in. Need to not focus as much on weight

yumyumpoppycat · 14/04/2020 10:11

Good luck with fast day badger!

Waspie · 14/04/2020 10:42

FD went well thanks BCF. I'm assuming you did not live up to your user name on Sunday? Smile

Careful weighing of lettuce LOL Chic Grin

Good luck today badger and other Tuesday fasters Brew

Waspie · 14/04/2020 10:43

Good luck with your mini yumyum Smile

Violet19Falc · 14/04/2020 12:16

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

DietChic · 14/04/2020 12:28

Thanks both - I feel that lettuce is going to feature strongly on my fast days! And so are my food scales. I’m just relieved it’s not daily.

inthethickofit19 · 14/04/2020 13:41

Hi all, hope everyone is keeping well and safe. I've not been here for a while Sad my mind is just not in it at the moment but I'm getting depressed that my clothes are getting tighter etc again so I've committed to a fast today.

Planning to have home made chicken chow mein for dinner (ingredients are chicken cooked in cornflour and soya sauce and the following veg courgette, carrot, peppers , green beans and sweetcorn. And egg noodles ofcourse. How much do you think would count as 500 calories? I've no idea.

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