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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 89: Believe in yourself and your goals. You are braver than you think, more talented than you know, and capable of more than you imagine

972 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 31/01/2020 14:24

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" to maintain on the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally"
means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had past diagnosed Eating Disorders or serious MH problems you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below if you need a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: Mosely TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Ideal Weight & Body Frame Size: Calc Wt Frame
Body Fat: BFat Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body types ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Units Cals

FD Recipes:
Mosely LowCarb , low carb Diet Doc
BBC Good Food 52 , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Foodie Under 200 Cals
Vegetarian ,

FD Ready Meals, Fast Food

Any Day:
Meal Planner

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
11
Ohyesiam · 04/02/2020 16:48

Harriet, you can do it! I love miso soup to take the edge of the hunger.

BigChocFrenzy · 04/02/2020 16:58

You can have it tomorrow, Harriet

< moves spy satellite 🛰 closer to hover over listening's shoulder >

OP posts:
ListeningQuietly · 04/02/2020 17:01

((((( BigChoc )))))
Prawn and vegetable stir fry tonight with no booze at all Grin

WineGummyBear · 04/02/2020 17:58

Was on hols last week so no FDs. Back on the waggon this week and it's hard!

FD today, mostly stuck with the plan and I went for a swim at lunchtime.

But I'm so hungry!!

Igglepigglesgrubbyblanket · 04/02/2020 18:41

I'm very impressed with all of you who do exercise on a fast day! I'm going good so far, Tuesdays are v busy for me and I don't really have time for breakfast anyway so skipped that and had tuna salad for lunch which was about 230 calories. I'll have my readymeal for tea & had coffee during the day. Haven't felt too bad so far! Maybe cos I have lots of reserves 😂

harriethoyle · 04/02/2020 18:46

I've got a spicy bean burger in the oven @moonlight1705 and I'm going to have a hot sugar free ribena later on @Whattodowithaminute and @Ohyesiam... all being well will end the day on 601 cals which will average out as 645 per b2b day! I have LOADS of work to do tonight as well, so that will help keep my mind off all the delicious food...!!

HandsDownRoundTheTown · 04/02/2020 18:57

Hi all

Tuesday Fasters - big cheer to you all. We are nearly there. Cannot wait for my coconut blueberry porridge for brekkie tomorrow.

I had a leek and potato soup for lunch with a Diet Coke (sorry BigChoc I know diet fizz is on the naughty list!) and am just making a warm salad with ready cooked green lentils, loads of spinach and peppers and a bit of feta crumbled on top.

I too am in awe of those who exercise on FDs. I find it hard on non-FDs! Blush. Might do some gentle stretches this evening!

HandsDownRoundTheTown · 04/02/2020 18:58

Oh and for the first time ever I left a big (lidded) cup of water next to my bed and chugged it as soon as i woke up. Really helped to zing me along and hold out for my first black coffee of the day until around 10 oclock. If i start the day with coffee i just cant stop drinking it.

Igglepigglesgrubbyblanket · 04/02/2020 19:18

Just had the beef & red wine ready meal and can report back that it is very nice for 233 calories and has loads of veg in it.

Laniakea · 04/02/2020 20:23

Finished on 485 & 20k steps - I’m truly knackered. If I feel okay tomorrow I’m going to do a b2b.

BigChocFrenzy · 04/02/2020 20:54

Well done, lania

That's useful conformation, iggle
So anyone looking for a decent FD ready meal, the Orcado beef & red wine sounds a good 'un.

Not long to go, GummyBear
I recommend you drink some water and then clean your teeth to remove temptation after supper

FYI - for future FDs and the NFD morning after an FD, I recommend you try another form of exercise, rather than swimming, which often increases hunger
So, maybe keep swimming for NFDs

This is because medium intensity cardio tries to draw most of its fuel from glycogen stores, which will be depleted on, or the morning after, an FD

Better on FDs are HIIT or lifting / resistance training, both of which use more fuel from bodyfat stores rather than glycogen

OP posts:
moonlight1705 · 04/02/2020 21:28

So I'm clocking in on a quite excellent 518 today, very happy with that.

I've also just finished my hour long taekwondo class which as bfc mentions is very HIIT based but am knackered. Think I'd better have porridge for breakfast tomorrow.

harriethoyle · 04/02/2020 21:32

Fasters, we've done excellently today - high fives all round! Looking forward to lots of SV and NSV from everyone

emcla · 04/02/2020 21:57

Hi all. I’m 5 pounds up since Christmas and finding it hard to lose. Back to 5 2 for me. I haven’t posted much on here lately as have had some work stress. Basically my work load has been reduced due to a work related injury. Some of my colleagues have been very unsupportive to say the least. I’m surprised by how bitchy people can be. That said I have to get back to my routine now and move on. Hopefully I will do a b2b tomorrow.

BigChocFrenzy · 04/02/2020 22:09

Well done, moon, Harriet, hands and all the other Tuesday fasters
That TKD class sounds fab, moon

Good luck, emcla
Choose your FDs, plan your menu in advance and you'll soon be back in the fasting swing

That's nasty of your colleagues, instead of being supportive after your work injury

OP posts:
emcla · 05/02/2020 09:52

Anyone fasting with me today ?

Igglepigglesgrubbyblanket · 05/02/2020 10:15

No fasting here today for me. Good luck emcla.

80skid · 05/02/2020 10:32

9 FDs in and 1 belt notch down . Still not ready to weigh in but there's definite progress!!

@BigChocFrenzy do you mind me asking about you and your background? You're obviously very knowledgeable and helpful, I wondered how long you'd been doing this, how far you've come etc. It's obviously suiting you and your exercise regime and dedication is great motivation Grin.

aberjenagain · 05/02/2020 10:43

Yay, well done @80skid Smile

I’m fasting with you today @emcla

Finished yesterday on about 550-600

OohMrDarcy · 05/02/2020 11:48

Morning (just about) all

late checking for a wednesday FD here. Was away with work the last couple of days and with some very long drives I just didn't feel able to fast so I'm here now.

Making a bolognaise pasta bake for the kids tonight - I'll have the bolognaise minus the pasta probably, just working that out - might allow myself a tiny bit.

I need to try and get back posting more regularly but with work being so busy it is tricky at the moment! Will try and check back in properly tonight!

SydneyCarton · 05/02/2020 16:21

I'm fasting today, and being sorely tempted as one of my colleagues has brought in some leftovers from his DCs birthday party and they are right by my desk! Party Rings, chocolate biscuits and a Swizzels assortment bag Envy. I've taken a double lolly for tomorrow Grin

Dinner will be sweet potato and black bean chilli with rice and a blob of sour cream for around 450.

Actually a double lolly is only 33 calories - this could be pudding!

badger82 · 05/02/2020 16:34

Hi all we've been in sickness bug hell this week with a poorly 2 year old. I also felt very dodgy and headache, tummy cramps etc but not actually been sick. Appetite gone completely so no fasting tomorrow but it's been a lean week for sure!
Feeling better also having reduced/cut out sugary snacks, just eaten really whole fresh foods. Cravings diminished. Will try to keep that up and zero snacking.
The days are getting lighter aren't they! It's hopeful!

BookSkark · 05/02/2020 17:06

badger I'm coming down with something too. Which doubly sucks as I had a cold just before Christmas. I can't even blame children for this one - it's colleagues deciding to sneeze and splutter everywhere

I think tomorrow's FD may have to be put on hold - but this is a WOE not a diet and all that, so if that delays the weight loss by a week, so be it. I just can't face the idea of being hungry and snotty at the same time!

OohMrDarcy · 05/02/2020 18:15

Kitchen closed on 505 here and all good.

How is everyone else doing?

Laniakea · 05/02/2020 18:25

All done, 545, okay for a b2b.

Looking forward to bed though!

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