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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 89: Believe in yourself and your goals. You are braver than you think, more talented than you know, and capable of more than you imagine

972 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 31/01/2020 14:24

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" to maintain on the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally"
means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had past diagnosed Eating Disorders or serious MH problems you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below if you need a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: Mosely TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Ideal Weight & Body Frame Size: Calc Wt Frame
Body Fat: BFat Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body types ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Units Cals

FD Recipes:
Mosely LowCarb , low carb Diet Doc
BBC Good Food 52 , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Foodie Under 200 Cals
Vegetarian ,

FD Ready Meals, Fast Food

Any Day:
Meal Planner

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
11
HandsDownRoundTheTown · 06/02/2020 20:16

Well done all. I’ve had a good week so far. Just need to not go wild and binge at the weekend on my NFDs. I’m making a big vat of dahl and will take some to work tomorrow to prevent falling on fish and chips at the staff canteen! Grin

ListeningQuietly · 06/02/2020 20:54

NFD ....
healthy small lunch and then had a takeaway Doner for supper (but I ate all of the salad) and a can of cider ;-)

But then again the film 1917 was absolutely brilliant and worth every calorie afterwards

PreseaCombatir · 06/02/2020 22:36

Finished my fast day. 🥳
I had a wasabi chicken soumen soup, and a handful of Doritos, and a few coffees. Probably only clocking in at about 300. Have been so busy at work, by the time I managed to leave, and sort the kids out I don’t even want to eat now, I just want to sleep 😴

Igglepigglesgrubbyblanket · 06/02/2020 22:45

Totally failed my fast today. Got to 11:30am on coffee, tea & water and had a horrible headache and couldn't concentrate on my work so I had a cheese toastie and a mocha. Ate quite badly the rest of the day too. Gonna go for more protien & veg between now and Tuesday and try another fast then. We'll done all who made it!

BigChocFrenzy · 06/02/2020 22:58

Well done, moon, Presea, hands, emcla

Iggle Another 5:2 mantra:
"FDs are never "failed", merely postponed" Wink

Don't worry about it; Just move on, choose another day and plan your menu for the day in advance:

Base meals on protein - as it is filling - with plenty of veg and optionally a small portion of starchy carbs
Avoid fruit juice, dried fruit, breakfast cereals or sweet "treats"; also avoid fruit on its own - only have as part of a meal

You could also choose to ease into fasting with 800 calories or more for the first couple of weeks, to allow 3 small meals

To avoid headaches,
I recommend you glug a level teasp Marmite mid-morning

  • this replenishes salt & mineral levels that may be low while your body adapts to fasting, which can often cause headaches. Even if you hate it, regard it as medicine to glug down.

Also, drink plenty of water throughout the day, as you will be obtaining less water than usual from food

OP posts:
OohMrDarcy · 07/02/2020 07:42

Morning all

Checking in for my Friday FD here. Got some of my homemade butternut squash soup leftover which I'm going to have for lunch followed by chicken and veggies. I do like doing one meal so I might make it a 2 course one depending on how hungry I am Grin

I think I've decided for the next 2 weeks I'll do 4:3 alongside eating to TDEE on NFDs, hopefully that will give me a boost.

Iggle- no one fails a FD. It's all a learning curve so that one got postponed whilst you learn some more. I'd suggest a spoon of marmite or pevril a couple of times a day if you got a headache, as well as plenty of water. Good luck!

badger82 · 07/02/2020 08:40

Basically STS this week after a midweek dip (due to sickness bug) - going to have three healthy NFDs and then hit up FDs Mon Thurs next week 🙌🏻

Good luck Friday fasters!

Ohyesiam · 07/02/2020 08:58

Friday is fast day for me. Which I am happy about. It was meant to be yesterday, but I was too preternatural and exhausted from a work marathon.
I’ve never really been able to be flexible around food before, any falling off the wagon would have been a signal to fall head long into the fridge, and not resurface for hours/ days / weeks. So to just reschedule it for today is an NSV for meSmile.

I have a busy but nice day ahead. Off to make a pot of coffee.

Happy fasting all Friday fasters.

harriethoyle · 07/02/2020 08:59

IF day here for me... sandwich for lunch and risotto for tea. Friends over for a long lunch tomorrow so I'll take it easy on Sunday. Fasting Monday and Tuesday b2b next week and might squeeze thursday in too... will see how I'm feeling.

Good luck Friday tasters!

harriethoyle · 07/02/2020 09:31

Fasters! Grin that's a freudian slip if ever I saw one

BigChocFrenzy · 07/02/2020 10:40

Good luck, MrD, oh, Harriet and any other Friday fasters

That's an encouraging NSV, Oh
5:2 is helping change your mindset around food

One of the keys of this WOL, which makes it sustainable longterm, is the flexibility to make it fit your life, instead of the other way round

That's good you're over that bug, badger
Those three healthy NFDs - no booze or junk - will help restore your gut health

OP posts:
WineGummyBear · 07/02/2020 11:49

@bigchocfrenzy thanks for the tip about headaches. I had a headache on Tuesday which I suspect was low salts/dehydration.

My FD yesterday was definitely stretching the definition. I had a small pack of wotsits (78 cal) and small packet of buttons (75cal) after tea. It's so hard fasting when I'm preparing snacks and tea for growing children just at the crucial moment when I'm hungry.

Actually, I think I've answered my own question there- I need to change my timings on a FD to ensure I'm not ravenous at kiddie tea/bedtime. Interesting.

I've settled into regular pattern on fast days. I'd be grateful for some critical input

Lunch: 2 oatcakes, 1 laughing cow triangle, handful of cherry tomatoes and a braeburn apple (approx 220 Cals?)

Tea: tin of tuna & diced red pepper with drizzle of dressing and a spoonful of whatever carbs the other residents of my house are eating that day. (Approx 300cal)

I'm finding that mostly works for me, but I do need to do something about the afternoon crisis point. Maybe a handful of nuts as I leave work?

Grateful for suggestions...

80skid · 07/02/2020 12:05

Morning Friday fasters (I preferred tasters thoughWink)
Sometimes I get that bleegh "it's a FD" feeling, but in all honesty, the excitement I feel about becoming slimmer, healthier and happier in my own skin is much stronger. I can't wait to get dressed and know I look nice and feel confident. Or be prepared to buy nice new clothes instead if just something that's cheap and fits I've become quite drab and mumsy, and I've had enough of it!

BigChocFrenzy · 07/02/2020 13:05

Eating as you leave work probably won't help much, Gummy
because your trigger is the kids' food

Instead, I recommend you keep something in the fridge to nibble while preparing their food
Try to munch on chopped raw veg - not fruit - celery / peppers / cucumber - but NO dip or sauce

80s That's a happy confidence NSV
It's great you feel so good

OP posts:
80skid · 07/02/2020 13:11

Sadly that's not where I am yet, but I'm looking forward to feeling that way in about 3 stones time Blush

WineGummyBear · 07/02/2020 15:22

Bigchocfrenzy i just read your post about replacing swimming with HIIT as it's better suited to fast days. Genius! (I've just download an article about HIIT swim sessions. Will try it out on Mon.

Noted your suggestion about raw veg- nice idea. Will also try that on Mon.

WineGummyBear · 07/02/2020 15:24

80skid you are on your way kiddo!

OohMrDarcy · 07/02/2020 16:30

Kitchen closed on 503 here, an thinking I'll FD on Sunday next.

Liking the NSVs all

BigChocFrenzy · 07/02/2020 17:11

Well done, MrD
You are usually within 10 cals for your 500, excellent skills !

OP posts:
OohMrDarcy · 07/02/2020 17:44
Grin
ListeningQuietly · 07/02/2020 18:06

So far today I've had two satsumas and several pints of tea and done a load of exercise
so its [pizza] for supper
but feeling motivated to keep the portion sizes under control.

Forgot to weigh myself today but will on Monday.
I think I'll focus on my body fat %age as much as actual weight (I have access to a boditrax machine)

BookSkark · 07/02/2020 20:56

Gummy could you not just eat with the kids? Admittedly I'm only a couple of weeks in, but I've found it easier to hold off on food during the day, and then go for an early tea with whatever everyone else is having, just slightly adapted (e.g. courgetti instead of pasta, extra veg instead of potatoes).

Saves the faff of cooking two meals and I find that once I've eaten, I can then last for the rest of the evening if I go to bed at a reasonable time.

Struggling to do a decent FD at the moment as I'm still full of lurgy, but eating sensibly and that's at least stopping me from putting on weight. Next week will be tricky as I've got four work meals, and I don't like fasting at weekends, but will just have to do what I can over the rest of the week - it's unusual to have this many functions in one week so I can just treat it as a one-off and get back to it properly the week after.

WineGummyBear · 07/02/2020 21:10

BookSkark that's exactly what i should do. Adapt what they eat and eat with them.
Then close the kitchen.

Hope that you are feeling better soon. Good idea to just roll with it next week, like you i prefer not to fast at weekends.

OohMrDarcy · 07/02/2020 21:20

Gummy that is what I do sometimes. I tend to do one FD when the kids are at their dads, and the other I do a meal that I can join in with - casseroles, soup, anything really where i can basically avoid the carbs. Last week i did a bolognaise pasta bake, i had did myself a portion of just the bolognaise and the kids had it with the pasta.

moonlight1705 · 08/02/2020 08:25

A lovely 0.6kg off today for the week. It is all heading now in the right direction.

I've also gone past one of my mini goals so am treating myself to a eyebrow session done in a proper beautician!

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