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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 89: Believe in yourself and your goals. You are braver than you think, more talented than you know, and capable of more than you imagine

972 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 31/01/2020 14:24

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" to maintain on the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally"
means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had past diagnosed Eating Disorders or serious MH problems you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below if you need a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: Mosely TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Ideal Weight & Body Frame Size: Calc Wt Frame
Body Fat: BFat Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body types ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Units Cals

FD Recipes:
Mosely LowCarb , low carb Diet Doc
BBC Good Food 52 , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Foodie Under 200 Cals
Vegetarian ,

FD Ready Meals, Fast Food

Any Day:
Meal Planner

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
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BigChocFrenzy · 03/04/2020 09:51

Congratulations on your SV, badger
16:8 or 14:10 is useful for NFDs
Fasting experts recommend aiming for at least 12:12 every day
i.e. eat within a 12-hour window, but less if you can, some days

OP posts:
noseovertail · 03/04/2020 10:54

fantastic SV badger Grin
well done moon and waspie

Fd#2 today and I've woken in a foul mood :( not helped by the fact I have a 4hour skype meeting starting at 11am - WTAF - I'm going to have to bow out halfway through as I'll need to eat plus I have a 9year old to look after! Really bloody annoyed, I've had more sodding skype / zoom meetings this week than Ive ever had face-to-face meetings in work - sorry, rant over!

Send me thoughts of strength not to crack open the wine later!

Hope everyone else is having a better morning than me :) :) :)

moonlight1705 · 03/04/2020 11:23

Well done badger - that is such a good achievement at the moment. I'm going to weigh tomorrow in the hopes of staying the same.

nose you can do it - bet most other people there will not want to talk for 4 hours either...perhaps we should do a 5:2 thread Zoom meeting and get to know each other over video Grin I really want to see this lovely Rhine walk that BCF talks about.

Your post made me giggle too waspie - I have images of the poor dog backing away slowly from the evil look in your eyes Grin

BigChocFrenzy · 03/04/2020 11:28

Good luck today, nose sounds a tough one, but you know you can nail this

  • and don't go near the booze, not one sniff < moves orbiting FD hunter-killer satellites to look over nose's shoulder 🛰 >

That Skype meeting sounds insane
They must have breaks, for the loo if nothing else

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 03/04/2020 11:29

Good luck today, nose sounds a tough one, but you know you can nail this

  • and don't go near the booze, not one sniff < moves orbiting FD hunter-killer satellites to look over nose's shoulder 🛰 >

That Skype meeting sounds insane
They must have breaks, for the loo if nothing else

Good luck on your weigh-in, moonlight
sts would be great

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 03/04/2020 11:36

For moonlight and any other curious 5:2ers, these are the views from my 2 lounge windows, of the Rhine beckoning me out every day

Looks even better in sunnier times, with more boats, canoes etc

5:2 Thread number 89: Believe in yourself and your goals. You are braver than you think, more talented than you know, and capable of more than you imagine
5:2 Thread number 89: Believe in yourself and your goals. You are braver than you think, more talented than you know, and capable of more than you imagine
OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 03/04/2020 11:37

oops 2nd one:

5:2 Thread number 89: Believe in yourself and your goals. You are braver than you think, more talented than you know, and capable of more than you imagine
OP posts:
maisiegirl · 03/04/2020 12:08

Do you mind if I join in? Did 52 years ago but didn't stick to it. I desperately need to loose a few pounds. I like fasting as I find it the easiest way. Wish me luck. I will weigh and measure myself in the morning to give myself a kickstart.

BigChocFrenzy · 03/04/2020 13:31

Welcome, Maisiegirl 🙂
and good luck

It helps measure progress if you have baseline measurements, just as you are recording tomorrow

Lots of info in the OP, especially the "How to Start" section,
but do post anytime you have questions or need support

OP posts:
noseovertail · 03/04/2020 14:18

welcome maisie and good luck.

Phew, thankfully the organisers saw sense and shortened the meeting to 2 hours instead of 4! Just had some chicken noodle soup with a little extra chicken and 2 satsumas. No idea re: dinner, and I am still in a grump :( early night for me I reckon although I have to brave tesco's too - eek

BCF I'm so jealous that you have that on your doorstep Envy you are very lucky Smile

BigChocFrenzy · 03/04/2020 17:41

That's good news, nose
2 hours is still twice too long for a useful meeting imo, but at least you weren't all bursting for the loo
Move on, don't let the verbose grump out your day

OP posts:
noseovertail · 03/04/2020 19:14

I agree bcf
I have waivered a few times tonight, thinking sod it I'll have a glass of wine and relax, but I've stayed strong this far. Just had big salad with 2 boiled eggs followed by 4 large strawberries and sugar free jelly, I'm full for the moment 😃 how's everyone else doing? mrd we used to be Friday fast buddies, are you fasting today?

BigChocFrenzy · 03/04/2020 20:56

Sounds delic and healthy, nose
and well done for resisting wine & cheese

MrD was poorly and won't fast until fully fit again
Are you feeling ready yet, mrD ?

OP posts:
moonlight1705 · 04/04/2020 08:03

Morning everybody, do you all have the lovely sunshine? We're planning on gardening later including planting veg which will be fun.

I've lost 0.5kg this week (1lb) which I'm pleased about. Kept snacking down and had some good minis.

I love the views from your place bcf, you really are right on the river.

Welcome maisie hope you enjoy the chat here and all the helpful advice.

noseovertail · 04/04/2020 08:30

Fab sv moon

3lbs down today, yippee :-) I'm glad I stuck to my fd yesterday although it was tough!

Oh yeah I'd forgotten, hope you are feeling better mrd

Hope everyone has a good day, no sunshine yet in the northwest, but planning a dog walk with ds and then pottering in the garden the rest of the day. Fingers crossed people obey the orders to stay at home

BigChocFrenzy · 04/04/2020 10:41

Congratulations on your SVs, moonlight, nose
Great results and shows your fasting & cutting out snacks paid off
Keep up the good habits !

OP posts:
yumyumpoppycat · 04/04/2020 14:49

So lovely to be able to see the Rhine from your window big choc. We have wall to wall terraces from our window but even that is ok when the sun is shining.

Well done moon and nose!

Welcome Maisie I am in the same boat!

So I haven't done an official mini fast but have had 2 or 3 days approx 1000 (guessing) and have fasted other than milky drinks until I have done a workout and served up lunch. I don't feel like I have done a clean fast with properly healthy food etc but all the same I have a little loss and dropped down from a particularly scary point on the scale! Have done quite a few workouts but going for walks is tricky for us unfortunately so lagging there. Might get my exercise watch back on to keep an eye.

Enjoy the weekend ☀️☀️☀️

BigChocFrenzy · 04/04/2020 17:08

Well done on your progress, yumyum
Sounds like you have managed a couple of miniFDs too

OP posts:
helpthismama · 04/04/2020 22:28

Hi all,

I've not been posting or fasting, well and truly fell off the wagon. Lockdown is incredibly difficult with two little ones plus the 11 month old had a high temp and required a trip to hospital. He was much better today thankfully.

I'm going to try to fast tomorrow. Will post to keep me in check! I can do this. I weighed yesterday morning and was 9st 12.2lbs. I had got down to 9st 9lbs so really hoping I can get there again quickly.

BigChocFrenzy · 05/04/2020 09:16

Good luck on your FD, help
What a relief your lo is better now

I kind of fell into a jar of nut butter yesterday Blush so I'll be fasting too
I find having a daily routine is important in lockdown, but yesterday I got lazy - that's taught me
Back to planning my meals, Tabata, chores and chilling

Any other Sunday fasters ?

OP posts:
Clutterfreeintraining · 05/04/2020 15:47

Hi everyone,
Checking in Smile
FD for me today and so far I've just had water. I think my stomach must have been very full because it's only just started rumbling Blush
Going to cook a Sunday roast now and then off to bed as early as I can get away with Grin

BigChocFrenzy · 05/04/2020 16:35

Good luck, Clutter
An early night is always a good idea, to help boost your immune system

OP posts:
Whattodowithaminute · 05/04/2020 16:47

Checking back in for accountability as fell off the thread-still haven’t quite worked out how to do it but think I need at least a weekly FD to maintain-in 2lb up total since my last FD pre lockdown.
I’m heading back to work this week so maybe I can make that into a FD opportunity.
Will catch up on others progress now, hope you’re all doing ok.

Clutterfreeintraining · 05/04/2020 17:51

Thanks, BigChoc

What - similar story here. I did start lockdown quite focussed but last week was pretty shocking and it shows on the scales.

I'm about to start Week three of my new work schedule and so far every week is different so that's not helping me to remember whichever day of the week it is!!

Planning to fast Tuesday and Thursday.

BigChocFrenzy · 05/04/2020 21:05

Sounds like a weekly FD would help you to sts, what, clutter

Just finished my miniFD

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