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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 89: Believe in yourself and your goals. You are braver than you think, more talented than you know, and capable of more than you imagine

972 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 31/01/2020 14:24

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" to maintain on the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally"
means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had past diagnosed Eating Disorders or serious MH problems you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below if you need a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: Mosely TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Ideal Weight & Body Frame Size: Calc Wt Frame
Body Fat: BFat Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body types ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Units Cals

FD Recipes:
Mosely LowCarb , low carb Diet Doc
BBC Good Food 52 , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Foodie Under 200 Cals
Vegetarian ,

FD Ready Meals, Fast Food

Any Day:
Meal Planner

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
11
BigChocFrenzy · 01/04/2020 10:26

Enjoy your NFD, Waspie
and good luck to any Wednesday fasters

I'm off for my daily walk now
I'd be much lazier if the sunny Rhine wasn't beckoning me from the windows
We've had gorgeous sun for the last 2 weeks

OP posts:
noseovertail · 01/04/2020 10:58

waspie i like the jelly after dinner on a fd, feels like a treat and the ones I have are about 4 or 5 calories depending on flavour!

nfd today, not eaten anything yet since FD yesterday, not hungry really. got a work meeting now (virtual) and another at 1pm, so hoping I can grab something in between them

Enjoy your walk bcf

noseovertail · 01/04/2020 20:02

Very quiet on here today.... hope all the weds fasters have had a successful day.

Nfd gone well, I skipped breakfast then had soup and homemade cheese scone for lunch with greek yogurt and strawberries for afters, then for dinner we had jacket potatoes with a huge salad (I did have cheese and aioli in the spud!) Followed by a slice of homemade banana and walnut cake (I have been baking lots over the weekend!) Cup of tea later to watch masterchef with and that's it. I havent mfp'd but I have 1820 on nfds so I reckon I'm okay?

SydneyCarton · 02/04/2020 08:07

No fast days or really any minis either here, but I’ve weighed in at 9 st 11 today, so a drop of 1.5 lbs from last week. Still not sure what is actual gain and actual loss but pleased to be back at a comfortable level.

We moved some stuff around in the bedroom where the scales are kept and I think it knocked them off kilter a bit because the first time I stepped on they said 9;4 Shock. Second time was 9:5 and then I got 9:11, and again twice more, so I went with that. So tempted to take the first reading Grin

BigChocFrenzy · 02/04/2020 08:27

That NFD sounds fine, nose
and my walk was excellent thank you.
I did 30 mins Tabata as well

Sydney Take the 9st 11 as a win !
It does show how sensitive / unreliable scales can be in some circumstances
Measuring waist, hips, bust and checking wrt the same piece of clothing is useful additional data

I'd check the battery compartment, maybe replace batteries if old, or take them out and put them back.

Moving scales to a slightly different part of the floor can lead to different results if there is a slightly different slope

Scales need to be on a hard, level surface - not carpet or any yielding surface
Weigh naked first thing in the morning, after loo but before any food or drink
Step carefully onto the scales - don't jump - and do not move for 3 secs, to give time for electronics and spring
Do not lean to one side or front / back

OP posts:
emcla · 02/04/2020 08:42

Good luck to anyone fasting today. I’m on board.

moonlight1705 · 02/04/2020 09:01

I'm doing a mini today so will join you emcla

Don't you just hate it when you see a nice low number on the scales and realise you have got one foot on a carpet or something similar. Our scales are sadly on a nice firm wooden floor with no slope so its always the same reading.

I like your rules for scale weighing BCF Smile

Waspie · 02/04/2020 09:33

Morning All.

Your rhine walk sounds lovely BCF. Is the weather still good for you? It's is still nice here in Berkshire - dry and warm during the day but cool mornings and evenings. Long may it continue!

I will look out for the jellies nose, thanks for the tip. Your NFD menu sounded lovely Smile I love baking too but these days it tends to be restricted to wholemeal blueberry muffins and beetroot brownies; and where's the fun in those? Grin

sydney Grin I hope WFH and child juggling is working out for you and Mr Carton.

I am fasting today as well so will join you emcla and moonlight. Good luck to you both and other Thursday fasters Flowers

BigChocFrenzy · 02/04/2020 10:29

Good luck on your fasting today, emcla, moonlight, waspie

Yes, waspie we've had lovely sunny weather for over 2 weeks now
Brisk, but I just need a sweatshirt to go out, as I soon warm up

moonlight scales are super-sensitive demons that may flatter to deceive, or may flounce off 😁

You always sound determined, emcla
I'm hopping on board too, today

OP posts:
noseovertail · 02/04/2020 11:00

good luck thurs fasters, I'm planning fd#2 for tomorrow to curb indulgence of wine and snacks habit that was taking over!!!

ooh I quite like the sound of those brownies waspies

Great weigh in sydney so tempting to go for the lesser number though!

Nfd today, not had anything yet, will hold out for lunch, I think 2 biggish meals a day suit me better than breakfast, lunch and dinner, I find breakfast just starts off the hunger for me! anyone else do this?

BigChocFrenzy · 02/04/2020 15:00

Several people prefer 2 meals per day, nose for 16:8
Some skip breakfast - especially if they find that can ramp up hunger;
a few skip supper instead

Others prefer 3 or 4 meals

So long as you don't graze or snack between meals, then do whatever suits your individual preferences and lifestyle

OP posts:
noseovertail · 02/04/2020 15:07

thanks bcf i'm going for the 2 meals a day approach I think, will see how it goes.

Waspie · 02/04/2020 16:24

You know in the Tom and Jerry cartoons when Tom is really hungry and imagines Jerry cooked and on a silver platter with an apple in his mouth? I have reached that stage with the dog Shock Grin Not really of course but it's always this time of day when I'm most hungry.

I'm wondering if WFH means I could shift my FD around to have a cup a soup around 11am, then main meal at 4pm and then a hard boiled egg or slice of chicken around 8pm? Or would that be considered snacking?

At weekends I usually just have two meals nose but they tend to be more of a brunch and then dinner. As you say, two more substantial meals rather than three.

I'm wondering if I put the scales next to the bath then sit on the edge of the bath with just my big toe on the scale I could self-identify as Kate Moss Grin

SydneyCarton · 02/04/2020 16:30

Thanks BigChoc, I got 9:11 three times in a row so that’s the true weight. Bust waist and hips are more or less staying the same, I’m quite chuffed with my 29.5 inch waist first thing in the morning, somewhat less so at the end of the day Grin

Waspie, it’s going okay so far thanks. We both work two days a week from home normally so all the WiFi and laptop stuff is already set up and Skype meetings are fairly standard. It’s difficult trying to keep the children quiet when one of us is on the phone but most people are in the same boat. Annual leave for both of us the week after Easter which will take the pressure off a bit

Nose, I also find breakfast kick starts hunger. I usually just have tea and water on FDs and an evening meal, otherwise if I have three mini meals I end up starving by 2 pm.

BigChocFrenzy · 02/04/2020 17:37

waspie Your meal timing looóks fine,

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 02/04/2020 17:39

Oops, my cushion pressed Post ! Blush

You have 3 small meals 11am, 4 pm, 8 pm which is not snacking - they are separated by 4hrs+

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 02/04/2020 17:41

Your dog wouldn't be a snack either, but that's on the banned list for FD and NFD !

Well done on your waist NSV, sydney

OP posts:
noseovertail · 02/04/2020 19:58

Ha ha waspie your post made me titter!! Grin

badger82 · 02/04/2020 20:24

Well done @sydney sounds like you're doing really well
I've had a successful FD, pleased with myself. Hoping for some kind of encouraging loss, however small, on the scales tomorrow. Going to follow @bigchoc advice and take some measurements tomorrow too

moonlight1705 · 02/04/2020 20:52

Ended the day at 1045 today which I'm quite pleased about. Well done badger and nose for your day.

Waspie · 02/04/2020 20:56

Thanks BigChocFrenzy. I'll bear in mind the 4 hour separation.

Kitchen closed on 465 and dog safe, well and snoring gently on the sofaSmile

Waspie · 02/04/2020 20:59

Well done badger82 and moonlight. Has your FD gone okay BCF?

Glad things are going well sydney.

BigChocFrenzy · 02/04/2020 21:23

Well done on excellent FDs and miniFDs, Badger, Moonlight, Waspie

I nailed my miniFD too and enjoyed my sunny hour outside

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 02/04/2020 21:24

How did you do, emcla ?

OP posts:
badger82 · 03/04/2020 08:52

0.9kg SV 🎉
Going to do 16:8 today too

Feeling happy

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