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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 89: Believe in yourself and your goals. You are braver than you think, more talented than you know, and capable of more than you imagine

972 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 31/01/2020 14:24

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" to maintain on the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally"
means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had past diagnosed Eating Disorders or serious MH problems you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below if you need a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: Mosely TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Ideal Weight & Body Frame Size: Calc Wt Frame
Body Fat: BFat Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body types ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Units Cals

FD Recipes:
Mosely LowCarb , low carb Diet Doc
BBC Good Food 52 , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Foodie Under 200 Cals
Vegetarian ,

FD Ready Meals, Fast Food

Any Day:
Meal Planner

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
11
BigChocFrenzy · 05/04/2020 21:05

Personally, I do 2 miniFDs to sts

OP posts:
moonlight1705 · 06/04/2020 10:24

I'm on a mini today and started out well with an hour of online taekwondo so am feeling energised.

It has helped me walk with DD as she paces up and down out patio on her walker looking very pleased with herself.

yumyumpoppycat · 06/04/2020 10:28

Clutter and What I agree lockdown is making it hard I feel more moody and up and down than usual which isn't helping.

I fasted in the morning on Sunday but ended up eating crisps and having a mini mars bar playing monopoly with the children.

I now have a head cold - it always happens when I start to fast - could that be a coincidence or Is that normal?

Good luck Monday fasters

badger82 · 06/04/2020 10:42

Morning fasters. Feeling positive today. Have done some cleaning and washing so far. Kids playing nicely - now on iPad break so I'm having a cuppa. So far so good.

emcla · 06/04/2020 10:45

Good luck badger and moonlight and any other fasters today. I’m fasting too. Rejoined mfp after no loss last week. Drinking hot water and tea today and dinner with the family later.

Waspie · 06/04/2020 11:52

Morning fellow fasters.

I'm fasting today too. We had a BBQ in the garden yesterday which was probably about 7 billion calories Sad and also means that I haven't eaten since 4pm yesterday. I've been really busy this morning though so I haven't noticed (yet!)

I actually managed to get eggs at the supermarket on Saturday so I shall have a mushroom and asparagus omelette as my main meal. I'm just toying with whether to have it at lunchtime rather than this evening. Have soup and salad this evening instead. I'll see how work goes I think.

Good luck badger and emcla and other Monday fasters Brew

Waspie · 06/04/2020 11:53

and good luck for your mini today moonlight Smile

BigChocFrenzy · 06/04/2020 12:27

A bright start with the exercise, moonlight

Good luck with the fasting today, emcla, badger, moonlight, waspie

Yum No, colds aren't a symptom of fasting
Research indicates that intermittent fasting tends to strengthen the immune system

It made a massive difference to me:

I used to have frequent and terrible colds in my late 40s & early 50s
I'd get anything going worse than even my late mum in her 80s, who lived with me then
I'd get ulcerated throat and need antibiotics to handle the 2ndary infections

Following the fasting WOE was like a reset switch for me:
The others in our office would be spluttering and coughing half the year, while I rarely got anything and then only mildly

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 06/04/2020 12:30

Like many early 5:2ers, I started 5:2 for the possible health benefits - as did Mosely originally

My family history was worrying and I had been looking into research online about healthy aging
I found that leading researchers were advocating Intermittent or periodic fasting

OP posts:
moonlight1705 · 06/04/2020 19:34

Ending my mini on 1038. How have you done emcla badger waspie?

emcla · 06/04/2020 20:04

Well done moonlight.

That’s pretty impressive re your health bigchoc. I get the flu vaccine every year. Maybe I could stop that. Overall I have great energy when eating less.

I had a successful fast. Just going to glug some more water now. And maybe a cup of tea later. Boiling eggs for an egg mayo sandwich for lunch tomorrow. May do another fd on Wednesday.

BigChocFrenzy · 06/04/2020 20:22

emcla Don't stop any vaccines !
Or any other meds without agreement of your doctor
Fasting is something healthy you can do for yourself, but it should not replace medical treatment

I've had the annual flu jab for over 20 years, ever since my only "proper flu"

  • I was ill for a month (including a relapse) and took 4 more months to regain previous gym fitness

Well done on your fast, Moonlight, emcla

OP posts:
emcla · 06/04/2020 21:02

Don’t worry bigchoc. I opt into getting the flu vaccine as a health care worker not for any other reason. I have no underlying medical conditions. I just worry about long term affects of getting it every year. My grandmother lived into her 90’s and didn’t get these vaccines and survived the Spanish flu.

badger82 · 07/04/2020 09:01

Fasting today as yesterday went awry. Trying to stay positive!

Waspie · 07/04/2020 09:39

Well done moonlight and emcla. Good luck today badger and other Tuesday fasters Flowers

My FD was fine yesterday - I drank loads of water (which was where I think I went wrong last time) and felt much better. Closed on 440 calories. I've actually lost 5.6Kg in total since I began in early February, so doing well. But then I have loads to lose so it's still early days.

noseovertail · 07/04/2020 10:30

morning all, and well done to everyone fasting yesterday :) nfd for me but I didn't MFP and we ended up having a picnic tea - salad, turkey tortilla, olives etc, but had more bread than I normally would have as DH had brought a baguette (eek!) FD today though :)

Well done on your loss so far waspie that's impressive!

Good luck today badger :)

emcla · 07/04/2020 10:45

Good luck today badger and any other Tuesday fasters. Smile

yumyumpoppycat · 07/04/2020 12:33

Thanks big choc that's reassuring - I am mainly interested in health and losing weight without making my metabolism even worse hopefully. Planning to fast tomorrow as seems to be a regular cold

Well done on your fast and losses waspie!

Good luck fasters.

Clutterfreeintraining · 07/04/2020 14:05

Hi everyone,

I'm fasting too, Badger. How are you getting on? I've been hungry since I woke up. I had a cup a soup about 12.30 but it hasn't really made much difference.

One of the parents of my two remaining childminded children now has symptoms so they're all in isolation for two weeks. So many different feelings running through my head but not reaching for food yet so that's positive.

BigChocFrenzy · 07/04/2020 19:47

Congratulations on a fab SV, Waspie

How are your FDs going today, badger, clutter ?

OP posts:
Clutterfreeintraining · 07/04/2020 20:42

Good, thanks.
Just come up to bed with a cup of tea - looking forward to breakfast tomorrow.

BigChocFrenzy · 07/04/2020 22:08

Well done on your FD, clutter

Night all Smile

OP posts:
badger82 · 07/04/2020 22:34

Yeah did better today - although still probably only a mini if I'm honest!
May do a TDEE day tomorrow and fast Thursday, will see what the scales say tomorrow. It's so much harder to lose 2kg than to gain it!

Waspie · 08/04/2020 07:44

so much harder to lose 2kg than to gain it! So true badger!

I hope the family of the child you mind will be okay clutter; and your family too of course Flowers

Anyone fasting today? I'm TDEE today and fasting tomorrow.

noseovertail · 08/04/2020 08:11

Fd closed on around 600 yesterday, not too bad....

Well done badger clutter

Nfd today then fd#2 Thursday, good luck to anyone fasting today!

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