Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 86: Weight loss doesn't begin in the kitchen or the gym; it starts in your head with a decision to go for it !

980 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 03/07/2019 14:48

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" to maintain on the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally"
means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had past diagnosed Eating Disorders or serious MH problems you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below if you need a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: Mosely TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Ideal Weight & Body Frame Size: Calc Wt Frame
Body Fat: BFat Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body types ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Units Cals

FD Recipes:
Mosely LowCarb , low carb Diet Doc
BBC Good Food 52 , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Foodie Under 200 Cals
Vegetarian ,

FD Ready Meals, Fast Food

Any Day:
Meal Planner

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
17
EssentialHummus · 09/07/2019 18:01

Hello bogies, welcome! There’s always room for one more here as we all keep getting smaller Grin.

OohMrDarcy · 09/07/2019 18:53

Kitchen closed on 501 And I've just tried on a new size 16 summer dress which I LOVE 🎉

EssentialHummus · 09/07/2019 19:12

Well done mrd and great NSV, in time for some warm weather.

Kitchen closed here too, bar a coffee possibly. Sandwich at lunch (not great, but the best I could manage with these building works at home and a toddler to chase after) and a salad for dinner. Probably fine overall as I don’t think a bowl of green salad would have been too heavy calorie-wise.

Good luck to all Wednesday fasters!

Bogiesaremyonlyfriend · 09/07/2019 19:37

Haha thanks essential! Hopefully I will be joining the getting smaller.

Fab news about the dress mrsdarcy

Bogiesaremyonlyfriend · 09/07/2019 19:37

Oh oops sorry mrd not Mrs!!!

BigChocFrenzy · 09/07/2019 19:43

Well done, MrD
and enjoy your lovely summer dress

Well done too, hummus
A sandwich and a salad is fine on FDs - you got your veggies in.

Welcome, bogies 🙂
and good luck

Exercise is important for health and also helps shape & flab,
but except for a small % of very intense exercisers, weight / fat loss is 90% dependent on calories in and, to a lesser extent, also their type

5:2 should help you nail your goal
Your target sounds very reasonable; just try to keep healthy 5:2 habits (listed above) on NFDs

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 09/07/2019 19:52

cheese Depends on clothes budget and personal preferences:

Some folk with a fair bit to lose buy a few cheap clothes, from charity shops or supermarkets etc, as their old clothes gradually get too baggy

then only once they reach goal, invest in a proper new wardrobe

OP posts:
Fillybuster · 09/07/2019 20:25

Welcome bogies Smile

Cheese - I quite like eBay for that sort of thing. That way I can get decent quality clothes (also dislike fast fashion & worry about environment and economic impact), which are recycled (see above!) and have the added advantage of frequently being cheaper than any other option, even with postage.

Fillybuster · 09/07/2019 20:26

Great SV MrD (I think that counts as an SV!)

Well done Hummus Smile

I’m off to grab a shower after the gym then do some sort of chicken salad type thing. Hoping to close the kitchen on/around 550 today. Funnily enough this time around the second fast has been really easy, even though I’ve been working at home. Hurrah!

cheesenpickles · 09/07/2019 21:24

Oooh @Fillybuster good shout. I'll have a little scout about.

Budget is leaannnn @BigChocFrenzy. I've definitely got some key pieces I want to get when I reach target.

BigChocFrenzy · 09/07/2019 23:03

Well done, filly
Two good days

OP posts:
Fillybuster · 09/07/2019 23:53

Thanks BigChoc Grin Kitchen closed around 500. In fact I got to 410 and was pretty much done, then remembered I had some 85% dark choc so had one small piece with a herbal tea. Oddly enough, I realised afterwards that I would have been just as happy drinking my tea without the chocolate (although I did enjoy it!) - that’s probably a “win”, right? Shock

OohMrDarcy · 10/07/2019 07:11

Well done Filly... now to get some good NFDs in this week!

Cheese - my budget is super lean too. I'm buying the bare minimum to keep me going and planning a new wardrobe when I get down enough to make the most of it! My reward for getting to my goal will be a personal shopping session for 2 outfits, and that will give me ideas for other bits! Hoping to go for quality that lasts at that point.

orangeshoebox · 10/07/2019 07:16

hello everyone
I did a fd yesterday, next one planned for tomorrow.

I struggle a bit atm. as moved to forrin, the food in the shops is very different plus I move a lot more, so I guess I have more of an appetite and eat it all back on other days. plus possibly peri. plus I'm getting every cold going...

onko · 10/07/2019 09:19

What a great community. Can I join in?

I’ve been doing fast800 for the past 10 days(didn’t know that was what I was doing until I started reading here). I finally managed to spark up some proper motivation to go hard after a terrible year of ‘letting it go’ weight gain peppered with a couple of failed 5:2 attempts. I was just messing with low cal eating and mostly low carb so v glad to see that this is actually an evidenced diet plan Smile.

I always felt q ashamed previously by v low cal eating, thinking it contributes to binge/bust eating (sadly it does for me having experienced 2stone fluctuations all my adult life).

BCF your advice is amazing. I so want to snap out of binge bust - what do you think is best? Super slow loss (eg 6:1) or steady loss to reach my goal then re-address wtf is going on in my head to lead me to pile it on again? My target loss is 2.5 stone and it feels like I’ve lost half already. Nb I don’t have scales as I understood previously that scales lead to unhealthy weight obsessions but I think I may need to invest in some.

onko · 10/07/2019 09:21

Correction: half a stone, not half my target weight lol!

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 10/07/2019 09:48

welcome bogies and good luck, of course half a stone is achievable in that time Smile

well done on your FD mrd and your fab NSV Grin

cheese is there any point in getting stuff taken in / made smaller rather than buying new? I'm not sure which is the cheaper option, but you might have a friend of a friend who does that sort of thing??

well done filly sounds like you are in the 5:2 zone

welcome onko the more the merrier Smile

stomach is feeling better today, not gurgly like it has been every morning i've woken up, although I've only had a cup of tea so far, got the kitchen fitters in so don't want to risk eating and then having to dash to the loo! Will try a bit of food once they've gone I think, but it feels like I might be over the worst of it (fingers crossed)

Not great timing as have a weekend away at stonehenge and then a folk festival, so will just have to take it easy on my tum, not planning to fast until next week but weighed in this morning (i know I know - I've had nowt in me for nigh on 5 days so its not real in that sense) but I am back to my pre-holiday weight so feeling quite grateful for this sickness bug Grin I know once I start eating normally again that I will probably gain a bit, but I feel so much more motivated as I was stuck in a crap eating rut after holidays Grin

Good luck weds fasters

OohMrDarcy · 10/07/2019 09:57

Glad to hear you are feeling better 43, long may it continue! And yay to the pre holiday SV - however temporary Grin

welcome newbies!

Fillybuster · 10/07/2019 10:02

Two great fast days and patriarchal bastard scales still say 10 (but 10.0.2!) but overall great progrsss and not even feeling hungry.

So why did I then eat two huge slices of my favourite cake that my lovely colleagues brought in this morning? Not one but two! Unbelievably high cal, danish packed with icing and custard. Feel slightly sick now and furious with myself. I should have take one slice and saved it for lunchtime ConfusedEnvy

orangeshoebox · 10/07/2019 10:08

filly count the cake as main meal. and go easy on the other meals.
it's no big deal

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 10/07/2019 10:24

filly well done on the SV, you are so so close
As orange says, just count that as your meal and just have a very light salad or soup later? you can salvage this.....

BigChocFrenzy · 10/07/2019 11:16

Well done on your FD, orange
When living abroad, you may find it easier to cook from scratch, if you can find some familiar ingredients
Or investigate local dishes that has ingredients you like.

That's good you are getting over the bug, 43
At those festivals, I recommend plain food. not too much, no junk, NO alcohol either - it is a stomach irritant

Don't beat yourself up, filly
If you can, just have a salad tonight. If not, it's one day, just move on

What helps avoid sabotage, is to plan in advance your menu for the day - and then stick to it, no ad hoc eating.

If you are planning a light day, before a big dinner:
then I recommend NO sweet treats, crisps, alcohol etc beforehand,because they are so calorie dense and moreish
Best to have a salad lunch, no bread or pud - you have those in your big meal later.

If mornings are dangerous for you re hunger / temptation,
then have a small protein mini-meal, e.g. boiled egg or piece of chicken with a tomato, no bread

Welcome, onko 🙂

Scales are very useful to monitor progress, along with a tape measure

  • for waist (measured at narrowest point, usually 2" above the navel) and hips

Unless you already find scales stressful, or budget is too tight, I'd recommend you buy some
Just simple scales for weight only, as domestic scales that claim to show bodyfat often oscillate wildly and do your head in
Digital scales are generally easier to read

Mosely has reported research showing that people can succeed - and later maintain - quick loss just as easily as slow, providing the loss was with a sensible, sustainable plan
So, no need for super slow.

I recommend you switch now from Fast800 to standard 5:2, because 5:2 is sustainable for most folk, but Fast800 is really tough

To help you stay on track on NFDs, I recommend you try to keep 5:2 healthy habits, even at weekends:

  • NHS alcohol limits - daily & weekly
  • NEVER snack / graze between meals,
  • have sensible amount of treats and only as part of a meal
  • lots of water & veg
  • cut down on flavoured fizzy drinks, even diet ones
OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 10/07/2019 11:19

On a planned light day, save any treat you are given for the next day - treats are usually calorie bombs and can also lead to further unplanned eating.

Don't let an unexpected treat throw you off plan - "I can have it tomorrow"

OP posts:
onko · 10/07/2019 12:18

Thanks so much for the advice bcf. Reassuring to hear there is evidence that slow weight loss is not necessarily the only way to keep it off.

I agree about sub800 being unsustainable....I’m just enjoying riding the wave right now Grin. I have decided to do 2 more days sub800 then I have a mini break with the extended family so am aiming for TDEE with no snacks, no junk or sweet stuff but slightly increased alcohol (I’m being realistic here!) balanced with increased exercise as it’s centerparcs.

5:2 starts Monday.

onko · 10/07/2019 12:25

Can I just say mr darcy that your journey is phenomenally inspirational....to have health setbacks and keep going when you are mid-way through (ie the hardest part) must be so challenging