Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 86: Weight loss doesn't begin in the kitchen or the gym; it starts in your head with a decision to go for it !

980 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 03/07/2019 14:48

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" to maintain on the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally"
means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had past diagnosed Eating Disorders or serious MH problems you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below if you need a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: Mosely TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Ideal Weight & Body Frame Size: Calc Wt Frame
Body Fat: BFat Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body types ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Units Cals

FD Recipes:
Mosely LowCarb , low carb Diet Doc
BBC Good Food 52 , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Foodie Under 200 Cals
Vegetarian ,

FD Ready Meals, Fast Food

Any Day:
Meal Planner

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
17
OohMrDarcy · 08/07/2019 15:50

Afternoon all

welcome back to the fold 43! You will be back in the swing in no time - no joining me for tomorrows Tuesday FD mind until you are fully recovered!

Thanks Filly - I'm really feeling like the old me again.... and that is the old pre-kids me, they are definitely appreciating a more energy filled mum right now! Long may it continue!!

Sounds like your first FD is going well Teacake - keep it up!

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 08/07/2019 16:24

That's fab filly you'll soon be in the 9s Grin

Keep going teacake what have you got planned for dinner?

Thanks mrd I could do with some of your boundless energy right about now Smile

Tried a piece of toast earlier so I could take some painkillers for sore neck, but straight back out Shock can I take paracetamol on an empty stomach?

Apolloanddaphne · 08/07/2019 16:43

I have just started the 5:2 diet. Today is a fast day and it is going fine. I just have a question about measuring the calories in a bowl of salad. I have 50 cals left for my base salad which will be: baby leaves, few cherry tomatoes, cucumber, pepper and radish. I may add a few mange tout. Is 50 cals an over estimation for this? I don't know if i can make myself weigh and count such a tiny portion but i might if i was left with a few more calories to add something else to my salad! Plan to have peach and cottage cheese on it.

EssentialHummus · 08/07/2019 16:47

Sounds about right apollo, and welcome! It’s also not the end of the world if you’re underestimating calories with salad/veg imo (dressing is another story).

BigChocFrenzy · 08/07/2019 18:25

Welcome, apollo 🙂
and good luck on your 1st FD - sounds a healthy plan for the day

Don't worry about measuring raw salad veg exactly

  • it is so low cal you are unlikely to exceed 50 cals by much
and salad is v healthy & filling for the cals

I normally have balsmico vinegar or lemon juice on FD salads - hardly any calories for 1 -2 tbsp
It is oil / mayo / creamy / cheesy dressing that is calorie dense and needs to be measured carefully in advance

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 08/07/2019 18:28

Great to hear that the pre-kids MrD is rising again, stronger than ever 🤛🏼

OP posts:
OohMrDarcy · 08/07/2019 21:07

👊🏻 back at you all 😁

Welcome apollo

Hope everyone fasting has had a good day. I'm off to read in bed and get a good night's sleep before tomorrows FD.

43, sending you some of my energy 😉

OohMrDarcy · 09/07/2019 07:51

Checking in for my FD today. I'm all set with a meal of chicken, veg and a little rice.

Anyone joining me?

BigChocFrenzy · 09/07/2019 08:22

Good luck on your FD, MrD

OP posts:
EssentialHummus · 09/07/2019 08:27

Checking in too mrD.

Apolloanddaphne · 09/07/2019 08:27

I have a question. When people first start on 5:2 do they keep a track of calories eaten on non fast days? I am worried I will eat more than my teedee amount. But I want to do 5:2 to get away from a diet mentality and counting stuff all the time. Does it all even out?

EssentialHummus · 09/07/2019 08:37

I didn’t apollo but I stuck to rules usually - no snacks, no alcohol, but whatever I wanted on weekends. Other people do things differently or find that if they don’t calorie count then they eat back the FD deficit.

Apolloanddaphne · 09/07/2019 09:11

Thanks. I have quite a high teedee so can eat around 2000 calls per day which in think is loads. I am ditching snacks and wine apart from weekends and special occasions. I think I will keep an eye on it and see how it goes.

OohMrDarcy · 09/07/2019 09:12

I did strictly to begin with Apollo ... now only vaguely ... depends on you really and how you think you work best. If you think just following the lower alchohol / no snacking rules will keep you on the straight and narrow then that is fine - maybe give that a go for a few weeks and then decide if you need to keep a closer eye on NFD cals?

OohMrDarcy · 09/07/2019 09:15

one thing I also did at the start apollo was aim for at least one day at GOAL TDEE - at first this was a shock to the system as it was considerably lower... now though 9/10 NFDs are at goal TDEE which can only be a good thing! This bit has happened naturally too - some days I struggle to reach that as I just don't want it.

Fillybuster · 09/07/2019 09:21

Welcome Apollo :)

Closed the kitchen yesterday on 540, and checking in for a second FD today, so will be keeping you company Mr D & Hummus. Eek! Shock

I don’t really like back to back fasts but there’s no other days this week I can do a proper FD...in fact, I’m going to have to do a few mini fasts just to stick to my TDEE (which is pretty low, sadly...about 1600).

Determined to break the back of this, as I know it’s my NFDs that are causing all my problems!

Apolloanddaphne · 09/07/2019 09:29

I see i need to be calling it TDEE. I had better get familiar with the lingo!

FleurNancy · 09/07/2019 10:06

Hello! I'm jumping back on the FD wagon after a few years absence, I know it works for me so why not. Food shopping today and got to work around having some building work in the house but perfect salad weather which always helps!

Summer15coming · 09/07/2019 10:48

Hi everyone. Out of shame for the fact that I keep starting this and dropping out, I have to admit I did for a second consider name-changing Blush.*
*
So, I'm pretty much back where I start every time, with 6 pounds to lose to break into the top end of acceptable BMI. Then I want to lose another 10 pounds or so.

I'm having a prep couple of days of removing snacking and cutting portions so that tomorrow I can hit the ground running.

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 09/07/2019 10:50

welcome apollo I use MFP to track calories, but as others have said, you can do this for the first couple of weeks to check you are not overeating / over-estimating certain foods and then stop - personally, I find I have to track all the time or else I overeat Sad

Thanks mrd Grin good luck with your FD

filly if you are doing a back to back FD you can have 650cals each day, so a little extra to get you through today

Welcome back fleur and good luck

Still nil by mouth, still feeling rotten Envy

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 09/07/2019 10:52

don't feel ashamed summer at least you are back here, you know it works and you know you can do it Grin keep posting here for accountability and good luck

BigChocFrenzy · 09/07/2019 12:47

Well done, filly and good luck
You're right, with your low TDEE, there is not much margin for social events on your NFDs
I'd suggest just a weekly date night, if possible

Fasting variations you might find useful to try some weeks:
+ADF (Alternate Day Fasting)
+or 4:3
+or 3 weekly miniFDs, Mon+Wed+dFri

Welcome back, fleur, summer

Good luck, Hummus, fleur

summer Never be embarassed
As in the title, sometimes it takes a few goes until your head is in the right place
That's absolutely fine and noone here gets judgey about anyone else, because we've all struggled at some time in our lives Smile

Sorry to hear that nasty bug is lingering, 43 💐
Do take care of yourself
Try to get plenty of water and sleep / rest

apollo Most people don't need to count on NFDs; just try to keep to the 5:2 healthy habitseven at weekends:

  • NHS alcohol limits - daily & weekly
  • NEVER snack / graze between meals,
  • have sensible amount of treats and only as part of a meal
  • lots of water & veg
  • cut down on flavoured fizzy drinks, even diet ones

However, some folk, especially those who have been overweight a long time, have got used to eating a lot more than TDEE

So, I suggest you try the first few weeks without counting,
but if you find at some stage that you are not losing as expected, then you probably need to retrain your "normal" eating to average within TDEE.

mfp for just 1 week can be a useful reality check, to highlight habits to tackle: sugary treats / alcohol / portion size / ....
Some folk then like to keep mfp for some weeks, as training wheels until new habits are fully set

OP posts:
Fillybuster · 09/07/2019 13:44

Just went back and rechecked the TDEE calculator, as that didnt feel right. Hurrah for 1800 (not 1600)....although not today!

cheesenpickles · 09/07/2019 15:06

What are people doing about clothes? I've got about 60lbs I plan to lose but my clothes are starting to get a bit billowy. I'm going to try and make them last as long as possible but I hate the idea of having to replace stuff that I'll need to keep replacing. I'm not a fan of fast fashion either so would hate to spend £££ on things that won't last. Nice issue to have but bothering me a bit!

Bogiesaremyonlyfriend · 09/07/2019 17:53

Hello! Is there room for one more?? Just started 5:2. Fast day today. Have done it for a short time in the past with good results but life got in the way! Holiday in 5 weeks so hoping for about half a stone off. Does that sound realistic? I'm 5.3 and weigh 9st.10 which is quite a bit over weight for me. Usually around 9.3 I've started bike riding, exercise videos and walking more but weight isn't shifting so hoping 5:2 is the answer. I've had slightly under 500 cals today so off to a good start!