5:2 Thread number 86: Weight loss doesn't begin in the kitchen or the gym; it starts in your head with a decision to go for it !

[BigChocFrenzy]

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" to maintain on the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally"
means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had past diagnosed Eating Disorders or serious MH problems you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below if you need a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: Mosely TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Ideal Weight & Body Frame Size: Calc Wt Frame
Body Fat: BFat Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body types ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Units Cals

FD Recipes:
Mosely LowCarb , low carb Diet Doc
BBC Good Food 52 , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Foodie Under 200 Cals
Vegetarian ,

FD Ready Meals, Fast Food

Any Day:
Meal Planner

FAQs / Tips

• WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
• HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
• SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
• EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.

HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.

• FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.

Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.

• BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.

You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.

• NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.

• Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.

• CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

i gahh thanks Onko - for me I think it is all about the headspace, I did this 3/4 years back (bigchoc remembers!) but for the wrong reasons - going through divorce after adultery etc... horribly stressful time. I lost 4 stone, but every holiday / birthday etc I gained, and by the summer hols I just couldn't do it at all.

Tried on and off to get back into it, and then started in Jan again - Have been feeling more like my old self since before Christmas so it seemed right, this time - I actually lost weight over christmas (NEVER happens) and then haven't had any issues up to now sticking to plan... and myself and both DC have birthdays early in the year. I feel like the old me - and the outward self is working to mirror the inside once more I guess.

Was a successful first day although I was hungry at bedtime. Jumped on scales this morning and they said 9.8 which I know is lack of food in my belly but helps to motivate! I'm hoping for more than half a stone but thought if I set myself a smaller goal anything else is a bonus!

And welcome onko!

First time on this thread as I’ve been slacking. The title is just what I need! I just can’t get my head in the right place to stay focused at the moment.

It’s week 2 of the the summer holidays here and your past experience sums up my current mood Darcy.

Anyways, FD today and managing to slog away so far, although there’s a family sized bag of Malteasers in the fridge and they’re winking at me every time I open it!

Welcome Max, Onko, Oranges

Thanks for the encouragement, everyone. I knew I didn’t need the cake and I also knew deep down it was a bad idea to take some...and I definitely knew perfectly well that seconds was entirely unnecessary. But I agree there’s not much to be gained from being mad at myself (although I am!).

Although it sounds like a plan, there’s no way I can make it from 9.30am to 8pm on two slices of cake after two consecutive fast days. It’s 4pm and my stomach is growling so loud they can hear it in meetings so I think it’s time for a small apple and a couple of corn crackers (still sub 100 cal I think) and a large glass of water!

Well done on your 1st FD, bogies

Welcome back, Maz
Are you finding FDs or NFDs tough ?
If NFDs, then try keeping the 5:2 healthy habits - no snacking etc

Your head sounds in the right place MrD and firmly screwed on
You are totally nailing this

Welcome back maz stay strong and ignore those chocs until tomorrow when you can have some with your meal, you can do this fd

filly it sounds like you've managed your day well in the end

I'm off for an early night, pleased to report tum is on the mend and everything I've eaten (which isn't a great amount, about 850cals) has stayed put!!!

I’m staying up far too late - til 2am every night, so my window for eating is huge and my appetite has gone through the roof.

It started when I took on a second job. How do others with unusual shift patterns manage?

That's tough, Maz
Shift work or extra long hours plays havoc with eating habits

Do you work nights ?
Can you just to keep the same eating window you had before and 3 or 4 meals within it, no snacks of course

Choose an eating window of maximum 12 hours, that fits within your waking hours
Then plan 3-4 mealtimes within that

Base meals on protein & veg, add a moderate portion of 1 starchy carb
plus 1-2 pieces of fruit per day

Plan each day in advance, FD & NFD

Wow Maz, that sounds tough! No extra advice from me, but BCFs suggestions are always excellent

So glad you’re feeling better 43....now to hold onto those unpleasantly-won-gains!

MrD, I’m loving your focus and determination . Inspiring and empowering...thank you for sharing.

As for me, I managed to have a fairly controlled evening event despite an amazing buffet. Only one small g&t as I was driving, which helped with self control. Big plate of amazing mixed salads and two slices of pizza (ok, they were large and I could have just had one....) and then just a small piece of brownie and a half a scoop of ice cream for dessert with some berries: I avoided the chocolate cake, pavlova, meringues, five types of cheesecake, sweets and all the other ice creams etc. Didn’t eat all day apart from two small crackers and an apple, so hopefully managed some damage limitation after this morning’s epic fail!!
NFD again tomorrow, packed with temptation (work event and big evening social things). Will do better!

Good damage limitation, filly

Morning all,

Checking in for a FD today - out tomorrow night for curry (minus the naan - worked well last time!) so fasting today and will keep tomorrow light until the meal.

Maz - 2am sounds hard.... I'd try and follow bigchoc's advice if you can!

Filly that sounds like fab damage limitation - and gaining balance on those fun nights too - well done!

Good luck, MrD and any other Thursday fasters

Hi all returning after a few years away (can’t remember my old username tho, bugger!)
Similar story to @OohMrDarcy, divorced after 25yrs, used this method to get skinny...
I moved from Cheshire to Sydney Australia last October and the weight is creeping on, I’m 50 at the end of this month and want to get back to my happy weight which means loosing 20lb So back to 5:2 for me.
Hope you don’t mind me joining you all again.

I seem to be finding the FD easier than the NFD. On a FD I plan my 500 calories, eat them and crack on. On a NFD i fret about what i am eating but i really don't want to be counting the calories in stuff all the time. I guess i will see if it is all working out when i weigh myself on Monday and maybe i will relax a bit more.

Welcome back, sidney 🙂 and good luck

This time, once you get to goal, I rcommend you select one of our mainenance plans
so you never have to lose weight again (except for a few holiday lb)

Apollo The FDs are the "diet days" and the NFDs are "maintenance days", so just as important for the longterm

I advise those who find NFDs tough to first work on the 5:2 healthy habits,
as this helps retrain "normal" eating to what your body needs to maintain

If for 3+ weeks, your weight loss is v slow or plateaus, then it's only at this stage that I usually recommend one full week on mfp as a reality check,
to highlight whatever the problem areas are, to work on: sweet treats / alcohol / portion size / ....

Some folk then use mfp as temporary training wheels, whereas others can correct the issue without this

Kitchen closed on 530, after I allowed myself a square of dark chocolate after my meal ...

Welcome back Sidney

Well done, MrD

Yes, BC’s advice is always spot on! I just need to listen and obey.

After a successful FD yesterday, I’ve managed a successful NFD today. Have upped my water intake and I’m trying to get to bed earlier.

I am very excited with my new bathroom scales. They are Bluetooth and I can sync them to an app on my phone, so every time I weigh myself it’s recorded. This technology has probably been around for a long time, but I’m amazed!

Welcome back Sydney!

Well done Filly for staying in control.

Welcome back Sydney

Well done on a good FD, MrD.

Apollo - I massively struggle with my NFDs. Find FDs really easy but even when I have a plan, my NFDs are tough. I think (but bear with me as I’m still working it out!) that that’s the bit that takes some people, like me, more time and effort as I’ve not got my “diet” head on and it’s really hard to retrain my brain to make good choices. Great advice from BCF, as always.
Second NFD in a row for me. At a weird work event all day. Had 4 quite large slices of Dominoes veg pizza for lunch, and a small bag of crisps mid afternoon but ‘only’ two glasses of wine and one g&t despite being at 3 different drinks events this evening. Had an apple and a v small piece of fruitcake for dinner. Hardly the worlds most balanced calorie intake but I manage to body swerve the huge buckets of haribo at the work thing and didn’t touch a single chip, canapé or crisp this evening, so I’m calling that a semi-win Pretty sure it doesn’t conform with a single on of the NFD guidelines so my plan for next week is to start really upping my game on that side of things. Plus maybe squeeze in one extra FD next week if I can, just to see how that goes.

Thanks for the welcome all
First official FD for me today, was going to start next week because I have a heavy social weekend, but think today will help with damage limitation 😁

Morning all

Weighed in today at 14st 8.8lb which gives me a 1.2lb loss this week and a total of 3st 3.6lb . My body may be attempting to hold onto fat at the moment but I am managing to keep it chipping away slowly!

Filly, like you say -may not be the best NFDs but you are at least making better choices here and there, it will start to have an effect if you keep it up, well done

Good luck for FD Sydney !

Congratulations on your SV, MrD

Well done, Maz
Enjoy your new scales

Good luck on your 1st FD, sydney
Definitely a good idea to start right away, before your big weekend

filly Your social calendar, with treat food & drink being ushed at you all the time, makes it really tough to lose weight,
but you are gradually improving habits, e.g. the 1 plate rule

Multiple functions in one evening needs special tactics:

I recommend everyone has a daily NFD maximum of 1 alcoholic drink and 1 sensible-sized pud - the 1 portion rule
So, choose 1 meal at which you'll have the glass of wine and drink sparkling water at the others
choose another event when you haave pud

SImilarly, choose 1 meal when you have a calorie bomb like pizza or pie and have only 1 piece - the 1 portion rule again
Try to fill most of your plate with protein, veg, beans

Fd again for me today, was too hungry yesterday and it went to pot! I had pie for tea but only a small bit with tons of veg. Also had a small chocolate bar - pmt craving! Had rice cakes and a cup of tea for lunch and will have steak and veg for tea. Planned to have soup for lunch but wanted something to crunch!