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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 86: Weight loss doesn't begin in the kitchen or the gym; it starts in your head with a decision to go for it !

980 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 03/07/2019 14:48

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" to maintain on the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally"
means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had past diagnosed Eating Disorders or serious MH problems you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below if you need a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: Mosely TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Ideal Weight & Body Frame Size: Calc Wt Frame
Body Fat: BFat Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body types ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Units Cals

FD Recipes:
Mosely LowCarb , low carb Diet Doc
BBC Good Food 52 , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Foodie Under 200 Cals
Vegetarian ,

FD Ready Meals, Fast Food

Any Day:
Meal Planner

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
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BigChocFrenzy · 03/07/2019 14:49

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Grin Welcome to 5:2 thread # 86 ! Grin
We’re a very friendly bunch, so pop in and join us

FAQs & tips in the OP

"HOW TO START" section has

  • Tips & FAQs
  • FD & NFD recipes
  • Meal planner
  • Body Goal Visualisers
  • Calculators for TDEE, Body Fat, Frame Size, Ideal Weight Range, Daily Alcohol Units & Cals

"Scientific Evidence for Health & Fasting" is at the end of the OP and includes links to peer-reviewed science papers

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OP posts:
KnittingForMittens · 03/07/2019 15:37

Following :)

Pineappleunder · 03/07/2019 17:13

New thread = new surge in motivation.
Let's do it.

OohMrDarcy · 03/07/2019 18:23

Thanks for the new thread BigChoc, loving the title which is so true!!

Glad you've had a lovely lunch, sounds perfect.

I'm starting to think more about my lunches and planning them the same way do with dinners. Today I had a ham & cucumber sandwich with light mayo on the little mino slices of bread (126 cals for 2) alongside the second half of my Cesar salad bag from yesterdays FD. Felt like loads and was happily stuffed after.

BigChocFrenzy · 03/07/2019 18:57

You sound very organised and positive, MrD
This is the new you, emerging after all the stress you've been through

Go for it, pineapple, mittens

OP posts:
Echobelly · 03/07/2019 19:05

Been at it a month now - may have to fudge my day for the first time tomorrow, as I seem to be coming down with an awful cold and there's no other day I can use this week.

I'm not weighing or measuring anything until the end of August, but it seems to be having an effect. Fast days got much easier last week and I wore a dress that I remember feeling looked and felt too tight across my stomach about 6 weeks ago (I'm not actually overweight but everything goes straight to my waist) and it was fine.

Hoping to maybe lost half a stone by end of August, and then just go to generally eating more sensibly, which the 5:2 is helping with already. Finding it easier to reduce portions and refuse snacks on other days.

I'm not being super precise about my cals on fast days (suspect I'm nearer 600 than 500 per day), it would make it too hard for me to bother, but it's def a lot less than I normally have!

BigChocFrenzy · 03/07/2019 19:19

Well done on your clothes / inches NSV, echo
and on improving longterm habits, like No snacking

I hope your cold goes quickly
Maybe make tomorrow a miniFD (800-1000 cals) instead ?
Same rules about no booze or junk

If you feel really rough, it might be best to skip an FD and just aim to maintain this week

However, try to make it a healthy TLC NFD, to support your immune system,
with plenty of water, veg, fruit and protein - but No snacking, alcohol or junk.

OP posts:
Fillybuster · 03/07/2019 19:19

Oooh, a new thread Grin Thank you BigChoc Flowers

Not really checking in as unlikely to have any actual FDs this week: off on holiday riding in the Lake District and not keeping track of cals...definitely drinking too much but trying (probably failing) to stick to sensible food decisions....

BigChocFrenzy · 03/07/2019 19:22

Enjoy your vacation, filly Sounds lovely

Don't worry about calories
but try to keep good habits: no snacking, no seconds and only 1 glass wine per day.

OP posts:
KnittingForMittens · 03/07/2019 19:49

Today was a NFD. I had overnight porridge for breakfast, lunch was couscous, halloumi, plenty of salad on the side with skyr yoghurt (thanks for reminding me to buy them @BigChocFrenzy! Absolutely delicious and so filling), strawberries, and a pea snack.
Dinner was a delicious spicy chicken curry with a tiny bit of rice! I'm increasing my protein and decreasing the amount of carbs as I already had couscous for lunch so I only had 1 heap tbsp of rice. Hope everyone is well.

KnittingForMittens · 03/07/2019 19:50

@Fillybuster have a good holiday! I've never been to Lake District but it looks magnificent.

BigChocFrenzy · 03/07/2019 20:03

That's a good menu for the day, mittens
Plenty of veg and protein, which should help you feel fuller for longer

OP posts:
KnittingForMittens · 03/07/2019 20:07

Thanks @BigChocFrenzy , and believe it or not I felt satisfied after lunch too. I usually (used to) want more food and so I would end up having 2 thick buttered white toast midday at work around 2oclock but now I don't feel the need for it! I'd rather drink lots of water and have a proper nutritious dinner at home.

QuackingDuck1985 · 03/07/2019 20:28

Jumping back on board for the new thread. Thanks BCF.

Been absolutely manic the last couple of months with holiday/ school events.

Head down now and I need to get back to my target.

OohMrDarcy · 03/07/2019 21:13

Loving the positivity the new thread always brings all Grin

This evening I've been out with DS playing Wizards Unite... any other potter heads here?? Anyway we were taking it in turns to jog up and down the length of the park to unlock portkeys 🎉

Came home, got him to bed and been tag teaming cleaning with DD - her sorting her room, and me doing the bathroom. Finally getting the house how I like it again after the illness! (Focusing on one room a day)...

Feeling like I have had a really positive, healthy and active day!

Oh NSV... I've taken to jogging up and down the stairs this week too Grin couldn't have done that 3 stone heavier !

EssentialHummus · 03/07/2019 21:27

Ooh, a new thread! Thanks bcf, and hello everyone!

New thread = new surge in motivation.

I like the sound of that.

bcf your luxury lunch and dessert today sounded so delicious, hope you enjoyed it.

NFD today for me, spent chasing DD and two of her toddler friends around a local museum. And this evening I went out into the garden for some fresh air and to tend to my veg patch, which always lifts my mood.

Good luck to all Thurs fasters.

Echobelly · 03/07/2019 22:05

Yeah, I think I'll try to keep my meals light but let myself snack a little tomorrow given the cold. I'm naturally a 'little and often' type eater!

claptomania · 04/07/2019 08:27

Liking the new thread positivity!
Signing in for a FD here after a week off with a nasty cold. Feel like I’ve definitely gained but will hold off weighing until after fasting on Saturday.

cheesenpickles · 04/07/2019 08:34

Checking in. I'm just shy of 4 weeks on this WOE and have ended up shifting from 18:6 into OMAD easily and trying to follow lazy keto too. I'm 18lbs down, nails are looking amazing and had lots of random other benefits. It's so much easier to track calories as well when I'm not having to calculate three meals and snacks. Loving this.

OohMrDarcy · 04/07/2019 09:16

morning all

Definitely something going on here at the moment - yesterday finished a couple of hundred cals under goal TDEE (500 under current) drank plenty of water and no snacking... today I've gained weight Confused

I was thinking and I remember last time I lost over 3 stone I had a period suddenly (don't normally have them - implant) so it is possible this is what is going on.

Either way I'm trusting the process and keeping on keeping on. I KNOW my diet is good, I KNOW I'm not snacking, I KNOW I'm drinking plenty of water and no alchohol (last was a single beer whilst camping). So therefore I KNOW all will come good and the weight will drop again.

buginarug · 04/07/2019 10:13

Morning all, thanks for the new thread BCF and good luck to all Thursday fasters!

Checking in for my 4th FD - I had a successful one on Tuesday too but it's been such a busy week that I haven't had chance to post. Being busy has meant easier fasting though! I have also managed to refrain from snacking all week. Smile

Cup of tea for breakfast today, a babybel, oatcakes and salad/veg sticks for lunch, soup for dinner.

The mention of additional benefits (weight loss aside) to fasting is interesting; I have heard reports of better skin on the 5:2 diet - anyone here experienced this? I have had problem skin since I was a teenager but I think my skin looks clearer already and I'm only on week 2. Maybe my troublesome complexion was down to overeating all along!

cheesenpickles · 04/07/2019 10:43

@buginarug I get really bad sebaceous filaments on my nose and chin and they've cleared up massively. Skin looks a lot less shallow as well. I've put it down to more sunshine and water but the rest of my body is feeling a lot "fresher" so less processed junk is definitely helping!

BigChocFrenzy · 04/07/2019 16:51

Welcome back, Duck

DD & friends are keeping you fit, hummus !

echo Mosely strongly recommends NO snacking
Eat meals, nothing between
Snacks - even "healthy ones" keep insulin raised all the time and hinder fat burning
Many on these threads have found that cutting out snacks boosts their loss

If you find it v tough to quit, then keep cut veg in the frig and have raw veg
- No dip, no sauce, no accompaniments -
e.g. raw celery / carrot

buginarug, pickles Research indicates that IF (Intermittent Fasting) itself has some health benefits - independent of weight loss
Fasting clears out some old cells and enables their replacement by new cells.
It helps some issues of insulin metabolism and inflammation.

Ailments fasting can help:
some skin ailments, IBS, asthma, PCOS, preT2 / T2
and researchers into healthy aging are increasingly recommending IF

Research links at the end of the OP, under "Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health"

Don't worry, MrD
As I posted before, when losing a lot of weight, it is usual to have a few plateaus along the way
when your weight sts or zig-zags a bit

You may indeed be suffering from hormonal swings / period,
or some of the empty fat cells may have refilled with water, as the body tries to maintain weight - be patient, keep drinking water and you will eventually have a whoosh as the water is released

You have good habits, just don't worry about this plateau - it shall pass

OP posts:
claptomania · 04/07/2019 22:01

Kitchen closed on 650 which I'm happy with.
Banana and coffee, salad with hummus, and fish cakes and veg on the menu.

Now almost 4 weeks into a 6 week recovery from my broken appendage (hopefully) and really missing the gym. Trying to keep up with the pilates and weights stuff at home, but it is fairly terrifying how quickly I am losing tone through not being able to exercise properly!

NightmareLoon · 04/07/2019 22:30

2nd FD of the week finished. I was all set to stop at 520, but got a raging headache and am out of paracetamol so good old ibuprofen with half a mug of warm milk. 650ish for the day I think?