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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 86: Weight loss doesn't begin in the kitchen or the gym; it starts in your head with a decision to go for it !

980 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 03/07/2019 14:48

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" to maintain on the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally"
means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had past diagnosed Eating Disorders or serious MH problems you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below if you need a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: Mosely TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Ideal Weight & Body Frame Size: Calc Wt Frame
Body Fat: BFat Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body types ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Units Cals

FD Recipes:
Mosely LowCarb , low carb Diet Doc
BBC Good Food 52 , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Foodie Under 200 Cals
Vegetarian ,

FD Ready Meals, Fast Food

Any Day:
Meal Planner

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
17
StarlingSong · 05/07/2019 00:23

Was it your birthday BCF? If so Happy Birthday! It sounds like you celebrated in style - your lunch sounded delicious.

MrD congrats on you stair NSV!

Bug I’ve also had the best skin of my life since I’ve been fasting - it seems to be much brighter and even.

Well done to all other fasters! Love reading everyones experiences.

I had my second FD for the week on Wednesday - black coffee, chicken veg soup for lunch, butter chicken ready meal and yogurt tub for dinner for a total of 499cal.

Have been MFPing this week as per BCF’s suggestion and it’s been an eye opener! My previous breakfast - which sounds healthy (porridge, fruit and seeds) was WAY too big. Have reduced the serving size and even swapped for some yogurt some days and have saved a lot of cals while still feeling satisfied.

I was hesitant to MFP - had dabbled before but it seemed too diet like - but I’m finding it quite fun actually. It’s taken the anxiety out of my NFDs for now. Think I will continue for a while until my habits are more set.

StarlingSong · 05/07/2019 00:41

Congrats on your dress NSV echo!

Have a fantastic holiday Filly - it sounds amazing.

Great SV and NSVs too pickles, sounds like this WOE really suits you Smile

OohMrDarcy · 05/07/2019 07:15

Morning all

Checking in for my Friday FD here. My body is wanting to retain weight, and I am determined to not let that happen! Am really pushing to at least sts. Got some left over fajita spiced chicken (no oil) from last night to have with my veggies today, along with ALL the water as it looks to be another hot one (anyone else loving it? I had resigned myself to a washout summer this year!)

Well done to yesterdays fasters. Anyone joining me today?

43, you still lurking?

Blossom... how is the recovery going?

KnittingForMittens · 05/07/2019 07:19

Morning! I'm joining you for FD today @OohMrDarcy

I am also on so I wouldn't be surprised if I haven't lost any weight (weigh day tomorrow). I did give it my all and I had a few snacky bits one day this week but didn't go overboard!

Good luck! We can do this. Grin

BigChocFrenzy · 05/07/2019 08:26

Thanks, Starling It was lovely

Well done on your portion size NSV
You are forming good longterm habits

mfp is useful as "training wheels" while doing so

  • it has given many folk a shock and often explained slower than expected loss

Food can be very healthy, while also being energy / calorie-dense
Porridge, nuts, seeds, avocado, olive oil are typical foods where many of us must exercise restraint

Well done on your FDs, clap, loon

loon On FDs, glug a teasp Marmite from the jar mid-morning and / or early afternoon, to avoid headaches.

Marmite replenishes salt & minerals that can be low while your body adapts to fasting

clap Just over 2 weeks and then you can start to rebuild your fitness
You will have "muscle memory" which will speed this up, compared to someone who didn't exercise before

In the meantime, it's good that you are keeping up the upper body and abs exercises, as recommended.

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BigChocFrenzy · 05/07/2019 08:29

Good luck, MrD, mittens

You know you've had plateaus & blips before MrD
and you also know you will plough them if you stay focused and patient

You know you are tougher than a plateau !

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OohMrDarcy · 05/07/2019 09:13

Sorry I missed your birthday BigChoc!

And yes, I'm on it and feeling strong...

KnittingForMittens · 05/07/2019 10:06

Hope you had a lovely birthday @BigChocFrenzy sorry I also missed it!

BigChocFrenzy · 05/07/2019 10:14

Thanks all Smile

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EssentialHummus · 05/07/2019 10:29

Oh, happy belated birthday bcf!

BigChocFrenzy · 05/07/2019 11:34

Thanks, hummus Smile
Are you fasting today ?

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EssentialHummus · 05/07/2019 11:57

No, nfd here today. DH is away so I will treat myself to a nice meal out later. Next FD on Sunday Smile.

Fillybuster · 05/07/2019 12:24

Belated happy birthday BCF - hope the rest of the day was as lovely as the meal?!

Well done everyone on all the successful FDs, SVs and NSVs. It’s lovely to hear all the success stories Smile

I’m home from the Lakes and back at my desk. It was a wonderful few days but I knew that lots of sandwich lunches on the fells and too much gin and wine in the evenings weren’t going to help with weight loss. For the first time ever, I skipped breakfast every day when riding (I never usually eat breakfast, but 3 hours on horseback on an empty stomach always felt a bit scary!), and felt completely fine going through until our lunch break, so I think that may have helped a bit. Scales this morning said 10.3, so am feeling grateful I’m only a lb or so up from when I went away, but mindful I’ve got another big social weekend coming up. Having a mini FD until family dinner, and squeezing in a couple of HIIT classes too (one before work and one instead of lunch, which will hopefully help with avoiding hunger pangs!). Determined to actually start losing weight rather than holding steady at some point....!!

BigChocFrenzy · 05/07/2019 12:53

Thanks, filly Smile

With all your reported social events and trips over the last few months, you are doing well to roughly sts

You'll find it v difficult to lose further and get to goal, unless you can have a couple of quiet months, i.e. with at most one feast meal / date night per week

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Fillybuster · 05/07/2019 15:00

Sadly, there’s no chance of some quiet months!! I managed to lose a reasonable amount of weight 6 years ago on this WoE (about the same as I’m targeting now), along with regular gym sessions, and an almost equally hectic social life (definitely busier now the dcs are a bit older) so I’m hopeful it can be done. Just need to accept I won’t see results as fast as others, if I’m not sticking to TDEE on a regular basis every week....! For example, we’re going to a big black tie dinner on Sunday night, and something else on Wednesday, but I'm hoping to be able to minimise impact if I have a mini FD on at least one of those, and keep going with the gym sessions, and of course make sure my actual FDs are spot on too. But I agree: not ideal! Easy to see where the stone of weight gain has crept in over the last 3 years, isn’t it?!

OohMrDarcy · 05/07/2019 16:19

Kitchen closed on 423 and a mountain of water drunk. Will have a cup of tea later whilst the DC are eating.

KnittingForMittens · 05/07/2019 19:32

Done for the day.

Had approx 450 calories today. :) looking forward to a bacon sarnie tomorrow for breakfast lol hope everyone is well!

OohMrDarcy · 05/07/2019 19:44

Well done mittens !

BigChocFrenzy · 05/07/2019 21:30

Well done, MrD, Mittens

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nolongersurprised · 05/07/2019 23:14

Happy Birthday, BigChoc.

I’m still here, my FD’s have become sub 800s but I like the mental clarity I get from them. My first goal was 64kg and then I decided to lose a few more - I’ve been 63ish for the last 7 weeks so this might be my weight. My BMI is exactly 22 and to be honest, 63-64 kg has always been my usual “relaxed” weight. I’m not sure I want to make the dietary sacrifices that getting thinner would entail!

It’s the school holidays here and it’s always harder to fast - lots of food shopping and prep. I think I’ll fast next week but sub 700-800 and then try properly for a month or so after that to see if I can shift this last kg.

Good luck to the fasters! Sat morning here and I’m still in bed after a busy week. The list of chores to do is moderate so I’m avoiding them for a bit longer.

KnittingForMittens · 06/07/2019 06:57

Morning all. Well I stepped on the scales and I am +2lb! I am really gutted to be honest. I'm not sure why that is? It could either be because my aunt flow is coming any day now (2 days late. NOT pregnant lol), or the whoosh effect?! I am going to keep on going. I am not giving up!

OohMrDarcy · 06/07/2019 07:11

Morning all

Mittens sounds like period based fluid retention to me.. keep on and it will bugger off soon.

I've weighed in this morning and its showing as 14st 10lb which is down 0.4lb on last week and takes my total loss to 3st 2.4lb

Not bad considering I've really fought to not gain this week! I'm taking it as a win.

Sounds like you are doing well surprised

KnittingForMittens · 06/07/2019 07:14

Well done Darcy that's really good! I think it must be that. I am going to keep on going for sure and drink plenty of water throughout.

BigChocFrenzy · 06/07/2019 07:34

Thanks, surprised Smile

That sounds a good plan

This is totally normal, Mittens
Most woman retain a few lb water around totm, whether on a diet or not

Stay focused, avoid the totm munchies, keep drinking water - so your body doesn't need to hang onto it -
and the FD after the end of totm should release the retained water

During totm, I advise women not to weigh, because retained water can make reaadings meaningless,
but can often still be discouraging

Also, even outside totm, weight fluctuates naturally a couple of lb over the course of a day and sometimes from one day to the next, especially for women:
speed of digestion / undigested food, hormonal swings causing water fluctuations, temporary water retention due to exercise, extra carbs ....

Weight loss is a process over several weeks - many months for those with a lot to shift - that almost always has some blips and plateaus.

Many women especially, are made to feel very emotional about weight and react emotionally to any blips - this is a problem caused by society

However, try not to have such high expectations / demands of your body

  • it's not a computer that produces the same results every week you do the same things, but it's a good faithful bod that gives you good service

From years of these threads, the most important characteristic in reaching goal is persistence,
not getting discouraged by temporary scale readings

Try to relax, be patient and you'll get to goal, at the pace for your individual body and lifestyle

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BigChocFrenzy · 06/07/2019 07:40

Well done, MrD
Sounds like your persistence is bringing you through this plateau

If progress stalls temporarily, try to reflect on how far you have come, all you have achieved:

44 lb is a fab loss and will have made a big difference to your body & health

Relax and look forward to your next milestones:
50 lb loss and seeing 13 stone something on the scales

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