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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 86: Weight loss doesn't begin in the kitchen or the gym; it starts in your head with a decision to go for it !

980 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 03/07/2019 14:48

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" to maintain on the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally"
means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had past diagnosed Eating Disorders or serious MH problems you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below if you need a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: Mosely TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Ideal Weight & Body Frame Size: Calc Wt Frame
Body Fat: BFat Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body types ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Units Cals

FD Recipes:
Mosely LowCarb , low carb Diet Doc
BBC Good Food 52 , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Foodie Under 200 Cals
Vegetarian ,

FD Ready Meals, Fast Food

Any Day:
Meal Planner

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
17
OohMrDarcy · 06/07/2019 08:15

I am relaxed about it really and wouldn't have been devastated if I had gained a pound, just a tad irritated lol. Am really over the moon at the progress I have made this year so far, and excited to see where it leads too.

Taking the kids out for a 5 mile walk this morning before it gets too hot later so just getting everything ready for that now.

Have a good one everyone !

KnittingForMittens · 06/07/2019 19:12

I'm really so annoyed with myself. I've been nit picking all day at snacky stuff :( I will get back to it tomorrow, I never give up. Just annoyed but it isn't the end of the world! I don't think I'll have dinner tonight as I don't fancy it anyway.

OohMrDarcy · 06/07/2019 20:49

Ah mittens, easily done. It is a journey not a sprint. Back to it from now on

EssentialHummus · 07/07/2019 11:29

Signing in for a Sunday FD here - anyone else?

Fillybuster · 07/07/2019 11:48

Hey Hummus, thinking about doing a mini FD as we’ve got a big dinner thing tonight. Will try to keep you company until 6pm Smile

EssentialHummus · 07/07/2019 12:24

Super filly! About to sit down to a big salad here.

Fillybuster · 07/07/2019 16:17

Back from a really fun box class at the gym. Bit of a sweaty wreck right now Grin Took BCFs advice on board and added 150g plain roast chicken (no oil added!) to lunchtime salad. Hoping the protein will help me avoid getting too hungry ahead of this evening’s event and retain some willpower over the canapés!

BigChocFrenzy · 07/07/2019 17:35

How are you doing, hummus ?
Did you get a chance to enjoy a walk outside ?

The weather today is pleasantly warm, after several weeks of 30-40C,
so I had a lie-in and then really enjoyed my first good Rhine walk for a while

Martial arts classes are usually great fun, filly as well as super for cardio fitness & body shape
If your box class is a regular event, you'll feel the benefit soon

Hopefully that protein salad will help sensible choices at dinner
Remember the no nibbles, no seconds and 1 glass wine healthy habits, to support your choices

OP posts:
EssentialHummus · 07/07/2019 18:54

Sounds lovely filly. And it sounds like the weather has eased off for you bcf after that heatwave.

All ok here - salad for lunch, salad for dinner, and I may just have a coffee as it’s quite early still. I went to a friend’s with DD and was able to resist the alcoholic drinks being offered this afternoon.

The coming week will be a bit difficult potentially - we’re having our (160 year old!) windows replaced so there will be disruption aplenty and a lot of meals out. I’m hoping to get another FD in on Tuesday and then just to make smart (and not stress induced) food choices the rest of the time.

OohMrDarcy · 07/07/2019 18:55

Evening all,

Well done to those fasting over the weekend!

BigChoc hope your Rhine walk was lovely, it's been cooler here today as well.

I've had a fab active weekend here, we have been for a walk in the shade in woodland in the new forest and saw a deer doing the same as us, had an ice cream, been swimming, to the park and finally got the house clean again!

Lots of general activity , and we have taken to jogging around the edge of the field on the way home from the park too Grin

KnittingForMittens · 07/07/2019 19:13

Been well and truly on plan today. I have also came on my period so that explained why I was picky yesterday :(

BigChocFrenzy · 07/07/2019 21:32

Well done on a good salady FD, hummus - I've been living on salads this last month -

That's a good Sunday NFD, mittens

Sounds a lovely weekend outside, MrD
but that deer needs to learn healthy habits, because I'm sure ice cream isn't good for herbivores Grin

OP posts:
NightmareLoon · 07/07/2019 21:54

After having my headache for FOUR DAYS.i can safely say it wasn't electrolytes on my FD. Nor was it a hormonal/cyclical headache as they don't go on like that for me.
I had a bit of a lightbulb moment and took a hayfever tablet. No more headache!

Fillybuster · 08/07/2019 00:09

Back from the dinner and can report some wins (no canapés and sipped half a glass of Prosecco through the whole first part of the event), some draws (3 drinks overall, and lots of water, and only a tiny bit of seconds) and some losses (should have avoided dessert buffet but ended up eating more than necessary, instead of a small taste, because I was deep in conversation with someone). But overall, better than previous attempts, I think!

BCF, I’m loving the box fit class, and trying to get to it at least once a week. Mixing it up with abs, pump, Pilates and circuits - and surprisingly enjoying all of it Shock. Found myself getting annoyed that personal commitments mean I can’t get to the gym from tues to Sunday this coming week, and trying to squeeze in an extra class tomorrow evening to compensate! This is so not —the old— me...

BigChocFrenzy · 08/07/2019 06:12

Morning all Smile
and good luck to the Monday fasters

That's a relief for you, loon

OP posts:
OohMrDarcy · 08/07/2019 06:16

Morning all

Happy Monday, bigchoc Grin that cracked me up!

Mittens, well done sticking to plan yesterday.

Loon - a 4 day headache, bleurgh! Stay on top of those tablets!

Filly sounds like progress to me and learning better habits too.

Good luck to anyone fasting today, NFD for me here

Teacakeandalatte · 08/07/2019 09:26

Morning everyone I am trying a FD today. I have done 5:2 a few times got off to a good start but messed up after a few weeks, so trying hard to make it stick this time. I want to lose about 70lbs. Sad Sad because I had lost all this weight a few years ago (on a vlcd) but then regained so I am hoping this will prove more sustainable but I have had a lot of false starts with various diets over the time I regained the weight. I'm also trying to back this attempt at 5:2 up with a hypnotherapy tape (not really a tape but audio download sounds wrong lol) so hopefully that will give me a little extra something to help me not to quit.
Good luck other fasters and sensible nfders Halo

OohMrDarcy · 08/07/2019 09:29

Welcome teacake

the fab thing about 5:2 is it isn't a diet! Nothing is forbidden forever. Obviously there are rules to follow on a FD (in the OP) and some good habits to learn, but that is all. I've been following the WOE all this year so far and am over 40lb down now!

Any questions, ask away

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 08/07/2019 09:51

morning everyone, can't believe I've missed most of a thread!!!
Had a shitty time of late and just no time to log on and post, eat properly or have any time to myself, add to that my kitchen being renovated and you can imagine the disordered eating! Anyway, last week DS was off with a vomiting bug and lo and behold, I've been struck down with it since saturday, which, whilst its been horrid, its actually a blessing in disguise and i'm viewing it as a restart on my crap eating.

I haven't been able to keep anything down so luckily I'm just 3lbs heavier than my lightest weight so far. It actually feels good to feel like I can take control again.

I've only read back the last page, but wow mrd 44lbs is amazing!

mittens you get days like that, don't beat yourself up about.... ah, just read that TOTM, so yes, that'll be why!

well done weekend fasters and good luck with the windows hummus

that sounds like a lovely day mrd

glad your headache has gone loon, I'm a fellow sufferer and its been terrible this last week

well done filly it sounds like you managed that remarkably well

welcome teacake and good luck, you will hopefully love this WOL

right, I'm off work today so no excuse not to log back on later. Not sure when I will next fast, guess I'll need to give it a few days after my belly has eased (which it hasn't yet) Hope everyone has a great monday, good luck fasters Smile

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 08/07/2019 10:46

caught up on this thread, belated happy birthday BCF hope you had a wonderful day Smile

and so glad that you are well now mrd, it sounds like you are doing everything right and there will be a whoosh in store for you soon

BigChocFrenzy · 08/07/2019 11:17

Welcome teacake 🙂 and good luck

Several folk have started these threads with BMI 40+ and then reached goal
Weight loss is usually quite quick for several weeks, when you have a lot to lose, so that is motivating

hummus I hope your windows are replaced efficiently, so the disruption isn't too long

Welcome back, 43
Sorry to hear you've had auch a tough time
I hope you & DS are back to normal asap

You are absolutely right:
do NOT fast for at least a week after symptoms have gone, or they can restart - your gut can require several days to repair itself after D&V

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 08/07/2019 11:26

teacake Nearly everyone has a bad day or week, maybe making not so good choices
or maybe doing everything right, but the scales won't budge for a while - a plateau

The people who succeed in losing a lot of weight are those who don't give up, but stay focused

Weight loss happens over weeks and months, so a bad day or week doesn't matter in the long run

OP posts:
Fillybuster · 08/07/2019 12:34

Checking in for a Monday FD and a proper catch up.

Welcome Teacake. You’ll get loads of great advice and support on here and check out BCFs great post at the top of this thread for more info, too. As others will tell you, this isn’t a diet but a “way of eating”: weight loss will follow as you adjust your eating patterns but it can take time (especially if, like me, you have a patchy record on your non fast days!!)

Loon - that sounds like a miserable few days. What a relief to get to the bottom of it! Stick with the antihistamine...everyone seems to be suffering much worse that usual this year.

BCF - so glad the weather has cooled off a bit for you. Are you still cycling 30km daily to work?

Hummus - well done on another great FD! Always impressed by successful Sunday fasts Grin

MrD, your new forest walk (with deer-eating-ice-cream sighting Grin) sounds divine. Well done on all SV and NSVs: all those gains like the long walk, running around the field, and up and down stairs are totally fab!

Hope you’re feeling better now Mittens? I’m sure those lbs will drop again quickly.

Welcome back 43! Been wondering where you’d got to...! No wonder you’ve been struggling with all that going on: glad you’re starting to feel better and congrats on the additional loss. Hopefully that will keep you incentivised to get back into this wow and keep those gains Smile

So following last nights semi-excess, I was quite chuffed that the scales read 10.2 this morning. Just got my period too, so am hoping that a good FD today, along with Abs and Pilates classes this evening (need to find the energy - had awful back pain last night and couldn’t sleep) and maybe a b2b tomorrow, as there’s no other days I can fast properly this week, might bring something starting with a 9 into sight at some point. Fingers crossed!

Good luck to everyone fasting today Smile

BigChocFrenzy · 08/07/2019 13:16

Good luck on your FD, filly

Yes, I still have my weekday cycling commute
but it's not as tough as it sounds, because it's split up into 4 chunks:

I work v part time, so I visit 2 sites during the day, with lots of time to chill in between and go to the gym
so it's say 8 km to site 1, have a meeting, return home, then later on visit site 2, check on project progress, then return home

OP posts:
Teacakeandalatte · 08/07/2019 14:06

Well that sounds quite a lot to me BCF!
Thanks everyone for your advice I am half way through my FD by now I think so far so good. I have only had a few white coffees no food. Brew