Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 86: Weight loss doesn't begin in the kitchen or the gym; it starts in your head with a decision to go for it !

980 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 03/07/2019 14:48

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" to maintain on the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally"
means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had past diagnosed Eating Disorders or serious MH problems you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below if you need a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: Mosely TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Ideal Weight & Body Frame Size: Calc Wt Frame
Body Fat: BFat Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body types ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Units Cals

FD Recipes:
Mosely LowCarb , low carb Diet Doc
BBC Good Food 52 , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Foodie Under 200 Cals
Vegetarian ,

FD Ready Meals, Fast Food

Any Day:
Meal Planner

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
17
VanGoghsDog · 10/09/2019 10:40

Nfd today, I've not had breakfast yet, I try to leave it as late as I can.

Rissotto with bacon and peas for tea, home made hummus to start. Roasted squash, quinoa and goats cheese salad for lunch. If I can be bothered to cook it!

BigChocFrenzy · 10/09/2019 11:30

Well done on your SV, Skye
and on your NSV of not craving sugar
Now see if you can stay away from it today

Good luck, hummus
Try to have a siesta today, or an early night - at our advanced age we need our sleep
It helps to fast and also to burn fat if you are well rested

Sounds absolutely delic, VanGogh
Well worth cooking !

Welcome back, Goblin
Don't worry, almost everyone needs a definite maintenance pln after reaching goal

  • or they go back to their old WOE which put on the original weight

This time when you reach goal, you know you need a defined maintenance plan

Thanks for posting those FD recipes, iceni, filly

OP posts:
Fillybuster · 10/09/2019 11:54

Hunger struck!! Even 2 black coffees didn’t see it off. 2 slices of sourdough toast with smashed avocado and 2 poached eggs later, I feel sooooo much better but b2b FD plans are our of the window ConfusedBlushShock

Ah well. Scales said 9.12 this morning, so I guess I now need to navigate an unplanned NFD in a way that leaves them looking similar tomorrow morning!

Good luck Hummus! Sorry to bail on you Blush

BigChocFrenzy · 10/09/2019 12:34

filly When you are hungry / not in the mood for an FD,
it's sensible to just aim for a sensible NFD - within the 5:2 healthy guidelines

OP posts:
bwydda · 10/09/2019 13:44

I'm b2b today. Have had a cooked breakfast (small - 452 cals according to the cafe menu) and am planning something light, 200 ish cals for supper later, maybe cauliflower soup.

I'm really glad that we went to a Tesco type cafe with cal counts. I work in a team and all the boys go out for lunch in a greasy spoon cafe pretty much daily, and I don't want to be left in the van with a packed lunch. I can see now (I've been working alone the last couple of weeks) that this will be a problem and I need to find ways of trying to order a light option or avoiding it altogether - without letting on that I'm dieting Confused (they'll tease me mercilessly if i say I'm dieting. The negative of being accepted into a very very male dominated trade is having to put up with all the "banter". Only women are bitchy my arse- men are ruthless)

tuttifritti · 10/09/2019 14:00

This thread is really filling up! Welcome to all the newbies.

FD for me today. I discovered a quite tasty chicken salad at costa for 197 calories.

My last weigh in after my last FD on Sunday I was back down to 11st, 0lb 6oz after a small amount of holiday gain. I hope tomorrow I will finally get in the 10's!

I'm so impressed by all the creative low cal recipes people are doing here. I'm finding it easier to do my FD's on ready made soups and omelettes.

EssentialHummus · 10/09/2019 14:07

Good luck bwydda. Those places will often have soup on the menu, and omelettes, which may work - my toddler loves the Sainsbury's cafe (no, me neither) so I have learnt to appreciate how they list the calories next to each meal.

BigChocFrenzy · 10/09/2019 15:45

Good luck for the rest of today, bwydda, tutti

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 10/09/2019 15:50

bwyda Packed lunch for "sensitive tum" ?
The boys will keep asking if you're pregnant !

Tactic: Move FDs if you must eat with the boys
Back in the weighloss phase, I used to do a weekend FD or b2b, which really helped loss

Even better:
Just say "I'm not eating that unhealthy shit" and do it your way

OP posts:
OohMrDarcy · 10/09/2019 17:21

Busy and stressful day 1 complete. Home from head office having stuck to my plan and about to make dinner. NFD here today

aberjenagain · 10/09/2019 18:03

Fd done - closed on 506.

Well done for getting through your stressful day unscathed mrd

bwydda that sounds tough! Hope the rest of your fd went well.

onko · 10/09/2019 18:35

Great SVs Filly, tutti and Skye.
Having a really good NFD here (all healthy, whole food and no snacking).

BloggersBlog · 10/09/2019 18:38

FD today - Spread over 2 meals

200 g prawns
Spinach/tomatoes/cucumber
100g Uncle Bens Spicy Rice

3 coffees with skimmed milk

2 litres of sugar free juice

Long hot bath and early bed.....

EssentialHummus · 10/09/2019 18:42

Day 2 of b2b done here. Stating the obvious but Wow the cold weather doesn’t help! Coffee in the morning then a large soup at lunchtime, with an egg, grilled tomatoes and a small portion of beans just now. And a biscuit. Possibly more coffee to follow.

Well done to other Tues fasters.

OohMrDarcy · 10/09/2019 19:44

Getting used to the colder weather is always hard work with fasting for me! Extra hot drinks in the meantime

Laniakea · 10/09/2019 20:11

yes definitely harder in the cold ... I survive on cups of bouillon! FD finished & I'm going to have another (very) early night.

bwydda · 10/09/2019 20:15

Fd done , closed kitchen on 690 (b2b)

Happy with that after the breakfast. Had tomato egg drop soup for tea and gallons of black tea.

Looking forward to nfd tomorrow

Skyejuly · 10/09/2019 20:55

Nfd today and feel like I've eaten loads but it's just been bulked up with veg...I'm still 500 under and having a hot choc. Unsure how to bulk out the nfd healthily x

Fillybuster · 10/09/2019 21:51

Iceni, I made your egg & chickpea curry this evening - didn’t have time to buy Berbere spice but had all the elements at home so made my own. It’s absolutely delicious!! Even better, I think that one portion with a small amount of quinoa has brought my total calorie count for the day back under my total b2b allowance despite my late breakfast/lunch!! Shock Combined that with a legs/bums/tums class and an hour long Pump class (yup...1.5 hours without a break...it was tough!!) so feeling quite good.

Not going to allow today as an official FD as I also had some crisps mid afternoon (momentary weakness) but I’m feeling mentally good about heading into a FD tomorrow - and looking forward to the other half for dinner tomorrow night!!

tuttifritti · 10/09/2019 21:52

Well done to all the Tuesday fasters. Hope you enjoy baths, coffee and a good night's rest.

Good luck to anyone fasting tomorrow.

BigChocFrenzy · 10/09/2019 22:41

Well done on your FDs, aber, bloggers, hummus, lania, bwydda
and good NFDs, MrD, onko

Did you have an NFD, tutti ?
Anyway, night night.

That was an energetic workout, filly
If you are peckish tomorrow after the low cals today, then why not make that FD a miniFD instead - same food rules, but allow yourself 800-1000 cals

Skye Sounds a healthy day
Don't worry, no need to eat up to the full TDEE if you aren't hungry

However in future if you are peckish on an NFD, how about a shrimp / chicken / beef & veg stir fry with some brown rice or quinoa for a change,
or tuna (canned in brine not oil) & salad if you want something quick

OP posts:
Skyejuly · 11/09/2019 07:02

Ok that's good to know. I had 3 meals but I find I am just making better choices so bulking up with veg then carbs for 1 meal really worked but I am still finding my feet. Had a nice hot chocolate last night which felt good. I dont want to be too restrictive just before a fast day or I will flop. Scales still saying -2 fingers crossed that 2lb is gone!

bwydda · 11/09/2019 07:19

I've weighed in today at 1lb down, and an inch off waist, and hips! I'm thrilled Grin

I've not been weighing every day this week which means I can relish in the overall loss rather than obsessing over 2- /2+ variations throughout.

Nfd for me today and SKYE- hot chocolate sounds like a plan Smile

bwydda · 11/09/2019 07:27

Oh- and dh btw in the same time as me has lost A STONE and nearly 4 inches around his waist. So double what I have despite being significantly older and not working out. Men get all the luck

VanGoghsDog · 11/09/2019 09:24

FD today!

Tend to eat nothing for as long as I can bear it, then tuna salad and a banana and early night.

Herbal tea all day.