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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 86: Weight loss doesn't begin in the kitchen or the gym; it starts in your head with a decision to go for it !

980 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 03/07/2019 14:48

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" to maintain on the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally"
means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had past diagnosed Eating Disorders or serious MH problems you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below if you need a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: Mosely TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Ideal Weight & Body Frame Size: Calc Wt Frame
Body Fat: BFat Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body types ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Units Cals

FD Recipes:
Mosely LowCarb , low carb Diet Doc
BBC Good Food 52 , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Foodie Under 200 Cals
Vegetarian ,

FD Ready Meals, Fast Food

Any Day:
Meal Planner

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
17
yumyumpoppycat · 09/09/2019 17:50

enjoy Shred mr D

Filly hope fast day gets easier.

I just had crayfish tails from Lidl - on offer at mo and whole pack is 114 calories.

aberjenagain · 09/09/2019 18:26

Thanks bcf. I thought I was doing well at the no snacking, but when I think about it, I probably do allow myself a few too many ‘one-off’ exceptions, so that’s what I’m going to work on.

I’ve also finally gotten round to booking an intro Pilates session so that I can start classes and sort out my terrible core and posture. Very excited! bcf, is this something reasonable to do on a fast day (I’m assuming so as muscles rather than anything more energetic)?

Well done to all the Monday fasters - nearly there!

OohMrDarcy · 09/09/2019 18:30

Kitchen closed on a less than ideal 650... not the end of the world though and I know it is because it's got cold suddenly

To make up for it I just made myself give shred level 2 a go and survived (just about!) Back to definitely finding it hard, lots of the moves were more fun just got to build up my strength more to keep going through them!

Laniakea · 09/09/2019 19:18

I'm been freezing & knackered today too ... I hate this weather Sad

NFD - 25 under my TDEE which is fine, going to fast tomorrow.

A little NSV - comfortably doing up my size 14 parka while wearing a jumper! Last time I did 5:2 I got the the point where I could do it up while wearing a t-shirt ;) ... so I guess that make me the thinnest I've been since I got pregnant with my now 12 year old!

EssentialHummus · 09/09/2019 19:27

Another one for “freezing and knackered” here! Giant ready meal soup for lunch (350 cals), a coffee, and now an odd combo of grilled egg and tomato with a bit of tuna and chopped cucumber. Possibly another decaf coffee to follow. Aiming for a b2b tomorrow.

VanGoghsDog · 09/09/2019 19:27

Fasted today - only had a tuna salad, with some cannellini beans, c 400 cal altogether.

A small banana and two finger KitKat before bed I think, and a herbal tea.

EssentialHummus · 09/09/2019 19:28

Well done lania!

bwydda · 09/09/2019 19:55

Well done all fasters- sorry to hear it's been a hard one all round.

I'm closing the kitchen now at 457 , having had chicken vermicelli soup for dinner and a Dippy egg and soldiers Blushfor lunch.

Im b2b so will be fasting again tomorrow with 800 cals.

Skyejuly · 09/09/2019 20:13

Struggled today

Had boiled egg at lunch with raw orange pepper to dip in

Dinner had homemade soup. Just tomatoes and onions blended. No stock.

Finishing under 500.

IceniSky · 09/09/2019 20:36

Really really struggled today.

Chickpea and egg curry, wholemeal wrap and salad for dinner. Around 500.

EssentialHummus · 09/09/2019 20:52

Well done sky and ice. Sky, why not add herbs/stock to soup? I often make similar to you but add a bit of curry powder and it's very very tasty for no additional calories.

Fillybuster · 09/09/2019 20:55

Well done all....gosh today was tough!

Iceni please could you share that curry recipe? Sounds fab!

Aber I’ve just got home from Pilates, and haven’t eaten all day. It’s much easier than a HIIT class but I do find I have a tendency to cramp if I’ve not had some marmite.

Right, off to make dinner. Salmon, asparagus, small jacket potato and maybe some other veg. Can’t wait!

onko · 09/09/2019 21:18

Great fasting in tough conditions.
Came in at a whisker under 500. Absolutely nothing I ate was worthy of reporting,
Lots of v impressive b2bing going on - well done all.
14 weeks now til Xmas....anyone challenging themselves to a stone off before then? Highly unlikely for me unless I a) nail every single week (including a holiday week) and b) bring my weekly deficit down a bit. But it’s a great aspirational target.

aberjenagain · 09/09/2019 21:21

Thanks filly that's v good to know. I usually have miso soup at lunchtime on FDs, and I love marmite, so hopefully the two will keep me sorted Smile

Sounds like a lot of tough FDs today – well done everyone for nailing them!

OohMrDarcy · 09/09/2019 21:30

Onko, I'm challenging myself too. Have decided that a stone is the minimum I should be able to lose before Christmas, if I keep doing well it should be nearer to 2 (still got a lot to lose!!)... the thought of being another two stone lighter by christmas is pretty bloody exciting, I would expect the loss to slow down after that as would be getting closer to goal.

Well done all the cold FD survivors!

BigChocFrenzy · 09/09/2019 21:53

Well done on your clothes milestone, Lania
Back to pre-pregancy weight of 13 years ago - fab !

aber Pilates is an excellent idea, FD or NFD

Most folk can exercise on FDs
Strength, HIIT or flexibility training is best, or just walking outside

Avoid long (> 60 mins) runs or swims though, as these use more of your glycogen stores for energy, which fasting depletes
and means you could feel knackered on the FD or on the following NFD

Those crayfish sound delic, yumyum

650 cals is fine, MrD
and well done on the Shred;
you will be getting fitter and stronger .... then it's time for the next level Wink

Go for your Christmas targets, onko, MrD
It's good motivation and doable for you both

Well done on your FD, VanGogh, MrD, Hummus, bwydda, Skye, Iceni, onko and any other fasters today

You did really well to keep going, Skye, Iceni

OP posts:
Fillybuster · 09/09/2019 22:58

Kitchen closed on 450, but was such an effort...thinking about a b2b tomorrow but not entirely sure I can face another one like today!

Yes, well done Lania - that’s a fab clothing SV! Great to notice those moments and see your achievements in such a tangible manner. Way to go!

BigChocFrenzy · 09/09/2019 23:53

Well done, filly
See how you feel tomorrow about a b2b

OP posts:
IceniSky · 10/09/2019 06:03

Filly, it's very basic to keep calorie count low!

2 cloves garlic, 1 red onion, 1 tin tomatoes, 1 tin chickpeas, tablespoon berbere spice, cumin, garlic paste, 2 table spoons tomato puree, corriander, 30g spinach, 1 or two boiled eggs chopped up.

Serves 2. It's the berbere spice that makes it but I have to order from Amazon. Its Ethiopian.

cakegoblin · 10/09/2019 06:34

Hi everyone, especially BigChoc and the old-timers! I lost 2 stone on 5:2 with the support of this last year but have put quite a bit back on this summer so I am taking myself in hand and will be joining you on a fast today to get back to where I was. Planning boiled egg with salt and pepper and a miso soup for lunch, can't remember what I had planned for dinner but it was from Moseley's Fast 800 book. Will update later! Good luck to all those on fasts today.

Skyejuly · 10/09/2019 06:38

That recipe sounds lovely. Will try the spice.

Scales are saying -2lb might just be a fluke but il take it.

I never thought this would happen but I'm not even craving sugar. 😲

Fillybuster · 10/09/2019 07:03

Fantastic - well done Skye!

Thanks Iceni and Aber for the recipes - they both sound delicious. Now need to decide which one to have for dinner tonight....! Iceni, do you think the recipe would work with ras al hanout or garam masala if I can’t get hold of any berbere today?

Welcome back cakegoblin Smile

Fillybuster · 10/09/2019 07:06

Aha!

Found it!

EssentialHummus · 10/09/2019 07:53

Welcome back cake!

B2b here. Rather tired (besides a lot else) after staying up to watch the parliamentary shenanigans last night, so I expect there will be a lot of coffee today.

Skyejuly · 10/09/2019 07:54

Good luck!

Nfd today. Cant handle b2b just yet but am finding I'm not reaching for junk at all.