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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 85: No need to tell people you are fasting - just show them your results.

968 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 03/05/2019 10:15

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" to maintain on the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally"
means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below if you need a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: Mosely TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc Frame
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: BFat Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units

FD Recipes:
Mosely LowCarb , low carb Diet Doc
BBC Good Food 52 , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know ,
Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals

Any Day:
Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 13/05/2019 22:26

Well done on nailing your FD on a tough day, millenium
It is easier to plan your FD menu the day before, so you don't have to think when hungry

OP posts:
Clutterfreeintraining · 13/05/2019 23:09

Evening everyone!
Just checking in very quickly - FD today and it's been pretty successful (despite being tortured by the smell of toast that ds has just made Hmm).
I'm going to bed now but will catch up on the thread in the morning.
Hope everyone's had a good day.

HLBug · 14/05/2019 06:42

Tuesday FD for me - busy day at work and lovely sunshine so hopefully it will pass smoothly. Anyone with me?

OohMrDarcy · 14/05/2019 07:27

Morning all

I'm with you HLBug, I do enjoy a Tueaday FD.

Got chicken and veggies for my main meal today and in working from home so will just make it when I feel like. Probably mid afternoon.

How is everyone else doing? Not been on the thread much recently! Hummus, think I saw you've had your whoosh and are nearly at goal now, fab news!!

43, not spotted your name recently? You joining me today?

Clutter well done on avoiding the toast smells on your FD

Clutterfreeintraining · 14/05/2019 07:52

Good luck Tuesday fasters!
I've just had my post-fast breakfast and wish I'd been a bit more restrained Blush
I'm in the middle of preparing lunch for later so will avoid anything but water until then Smile

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 14/05/2019 08:05

gah.... typed out a huge message on my phone and lost it!!! I've lost the will to go back and do it again as thread is moving fast, but well done to everyone on their SVs and NSVs, essential you are so close!!!

Welcome newbies and welcome back bug you'll soon have that small gain off

Weekend wasn't great, neither was yesterday.... fd for me today and friday this week. Got a super busy stressful time at work, plus its my 45th birthday tomorrow, so this week is tricky to say the least. I'm on holiday from next thursday and like you bug trying on swimsuits and holiday clothes over the weekend has sent me in a bit of a tail spin and I feel so fat and frumpy in everything I try on Sad however, instead of galvanising that feeling and thinking lets make the most of the week and a half left before hols, i go the other way and decide the answer is to eat more crap, make myself feel worse - go figure huh!

Anyway, line firmly drawn under it today, got a skinny latte to see me through to lunch, (chicken salad) than possibly another chicken salad for dinner!!!

Good luck tues fasters Smile

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 14/05/2019 08:06

Sorry mrd was on train to work and missed your post, yet I'm fasting today buddy Smile hope you have a good day

BigChocFrenzy · 14/05/2019 09:09

Well done on your FD, clutter
Toast smells are dangerous !

Good luck, MrD, bug,43 and any other Tuesday fastery

43 You know you certainly aren't fat or frumpy < speaks sternly 👈🏼>
You have done really well and you are only a bit above goal

Enjoy your birthday tomorrow - your favourite food and a glass of wine - and stay focused on the remaining days until your holiday

OP posts:
Earslaps · 14/05/2019 10:07

Yes, I'm on the up millenium, not 100% so still taking it easy with the exercise but well enough for a FD! I hope you're feeling better now.

Checking in for a Tuesday FD. Might make it slightly higher than 500 calories due to the cold, I'll see how I go. I have some fish fillets for tea so will think what to do with them. I think a lemon and herb breadcrumb topping could be good, then some salad and veg on the side.

Good luck to all Tuesday fasters and well done on successful Monday fasts.

nolongersurprised · 14/05/2019 11:34

Just finished a Tuesday fast day. I didn’t plan it very well. I had a work meeting this where annually it’s a tradition for pizza to be bought for us. I needed to concentrate so I ate for the first time at about 5pm, just before I left. I had some brown rice and left over casserole (not much) for about 400cal, planning to leave some for some yoghurt in the evening.

It’s not even that I wanted the pizza but it would have seemed weird and a bit rude not to. I had the smallest piece of the vege pizza and it was so skinny I doubt it’d be more than 250cal so in total I’m probably looking at 650 for the day. I considered giving up on today and trying again tomorrow but my other planned FD is Thursday and back to back FDs are too hard core for me. Friday is too busy and Saturday is Australian Election Day and I may need alcohol 🍷.

Good luck to the other fasters. Earslaps that sounds delicious! 43 are you trying on clothes in the shops or at home? Those mirrors in shops always make everyone look worse.

milleniumhandandprawn · 14/05/2019 12:19

Hello All!

nolonger 650 isn't a disaster at all - and it's quite possible you're overestimating that pizza.
Maybe have a particularly well behaved NFD to make up for it?

So week one weigh in for me shows I'm down 4lbs! Am really pleased with that.
Suspect tomorrow I might be down another lb or 2 due to some digestive issues which have ...ahem... resolved themselves ... today!

Looking forward to hitting some goals soon - healthy bmi is within half a stone, being 12st something rather than 13.... being 17x lbs instead of 18x
Good times! 😂

earflaps I'm glad you're on the mend. I'm sadly in the thick of it today and need to go and negotiate with a client 😩 am going to threaten to sneeze on him if he doesn't agree!

Happy birthday for tomorrow 43!!!

nolongersurprised · 14/05/2019 12:38

nolonger 650 isn't a disaster at all - and it's quite possible you're overestimating that pizza.
Maybe have a particularly well behaved NFD to make up for it?

You’re right, I sound a bit rigid, don’t I? I think it’s because I don’t count at all during NFD so I like to feel like I’m trying hard during the FDs.

There’re impressive losses

BigChocFrenzy · 14/05/2019 13:03

Take care of yourselves with those colds earslaps, millennium 💐

You did well, surprised

If you find you have an FD on the same day as a social event, 3 main choices:

. postpone the FD and enjoy the day like everyone else
. relax the FD a bit by having up to 800 cals
. have a miniFD (sub-1000)

Most people don't need to cont on NFDs, if they keep 5:2 healthy habits on NFDs, even at weekends:

NHS alcohol limits, NEVER snack / graze between meals,
sensible amount of treats and only as part of a meal, lots of water & veg, cut down on flavoured fizzy drinks

OP posts:
SpottyDuvet · 14/05/2019 13:03

Hello!

Back on it having had far too much socialising recently so cutting it back. FD today and just trying to work out what to make for dinner as DH likes “proper” food and objects to fish. I think I probably see turkey burgers in our future. Hmm.

BigChocFrenzy · 14/05/2019 13:22

Welcome back, spotty
Proper food not fish ?
Steak, baked ham, chicken breasts, stews, stir fries, salads .....

OP posts:
SpottyDuvet · 14/05/2019 13:31

Thank you Bigchoc! - steak actually might work - I could have mushrooms and veg and he can have chips as well. By the time I make an acceptable “salad” it’s not very salady but is 90% dressing, nuts, lardons and croutons.

Steak it is!

Earslaps · 14/05/2019 13:45

Steak is always good for a FD (or any day!) spotty, or lean pork is amazing too- pork fillet is very low fat but sufficiently meaty to be satisfying.

Also, if you use lean mince, you can make a chilli or bolognese and serve with courgetti/cauliflower rice.

FD going ok, just had two boiled eggs with loads of salad leaves and some gherkins. That should keep me going nicely until dinner time.

EssentialHummus · 14/05/2019 13:57

Happy birthday for tomorrow 43! Flowers

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 14/05/2019 16:06

Thanks for the telling off bcf

Sounds like you've managed all that pizza very well nolonger unfortunately I'm trying stuff on at home so can't even blame the mirrors! I always struggle with swimwear, being large of nork (ff) it's that eternal quest for comfort v support Smile

Well done on your sv millennium
Glad you are feeling better ears
Welcome back spotty

Thanks for the birthday wishes Smile

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 14/05/2019 16:07

Oops there was a Smile at the end of that first response to bcf

OohMrDarcy · 14/05/2019 18:04

Evening all

Kitchen closed on 453, with another bottle of water and a cup of tea planned when the DC go to bed

Happy birthday for tomorrow 43 in case I dont make it back on !

BigChocFrenzy · 14/05/2019 18:49

Well done MrD
Enjoy your evening cuppa and me-time Smile

OP posts:
TheMShip · 14/05/2019 18:56

I'd like to rejoin. I did really well on 5:2 for ages, then I got promoted at work and the stress eating started again. I've put almost 2 stone back on, and I feel lethargic. I've tried restarting a few times but I can't do it without support. Oddly I find NFDs harder, and I struggle with MFP. I'm going to try a mini FD at 1000kcal tomorrow.

blodynmawr · 14/05/2019 19:20

My Tuesday FD done Smile
Approx 600 cals.
Well done all other Tuesday fasters!

BigChocFrenzy · 14/05/2019 19:23

Welcome back, Mship

You are another who might find it easier to do 3 x miniFDs - say Mon+Wed+Fri - instead of 2 FDs
Same food rules as FDs, i.e. no junk, no booze, but it gives scope for 3 small meals

Also, plan your days to enable 20-30 minutes walk outside, when it's not rainy and get plenty of sleep.
Those measure will help reduce stress

OP posts: