Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 85: No need to tell people you are fasting - just show them your results.

968 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 03/05/2019 10:15

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" to maintain on the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally"
means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below if you need a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: Mosely TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc Frame
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: BFat Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units

FD Recipes:
Mosely LowCarb , low carb Diet Doc
BBC Good Food 52 , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know ,
Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals

Any Day:
Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Pineappleunder · 17/06/2019 11:14

Feeling positive from a good NFD yesterday and ready for a fast today.

Scales not budging much atm due to a couple of days over the last fortnight with too much booze on my NFD. Sounds like you might be similar @Fortythreeandfatasfuck
I know I should just stick to one glass... But it's so very difficult when your social life for many years has revolved around drinking. I can't be the only one who struggles with this?
Anyway, yesterday I just felt like a walk rather than wine which was so refreshing and double calorie saving. It was refreshing that it was what I wanted to do rather than what I felt I ought to do.
Hoping this FD goes smoothly and the positivity keeps coming.

TheClitterati · 17/06/2019 12:46

Hi everyone - I need to join you! I stopped "dieting" a few years ago now and focused on deprogramming myself for a lifetime of ingrained diet speak. I certainly feel a lot better for it. And while I am happy being overweight, I can't ignore that I do need to lose weight for health reasons - my health and overall lifestyle would improve so much I really need to address this.

I am loath to "diet" but I am open to WOL changes and thinking - and I know whatever I do will need to be ongoing. I did do 5:2 many years with some success. & a friend of mine has had quite dramatic results over the last few years with it.

I do have young children I need to cook for (I'm single parent) so planning will be essential. On the plus side I already exercise regularly and really love that, and I really enjoy eating vegetables.

I'm happy to measure myself occasionally but I find weighing myself a very depressing and undermining experience. No matter if there is loss or gain, the weighing seems to destabilise what I am doing and undermine and even undo any success. So I'd prefer not to do that.

I'll do my first fast day tomorrow.

BigChocFrenzy · 17/06/2019 13:41

Welcome, clitterati Smile

OP posts:
Earslaps · 17/06/2019 14:01

Checking in after being AWOL for a bit! I've been keeping up with the FDs but not been measuring for a bit. Lots of exercise going on here and I seem to have a giant appetite. I think I need to make more of an effort to increase my calories via nuts and good fats etc so I don't dive into the chocolate.

FD today, I've just had a small packet of jerky and an apple for lunch. Then smoked haddock, poached egg and sauteed spinach for dinner.

Good luck to all the fasters today.

JinglingHellsBells · 17/06/2019 14:37

Hi all

Q for you all. I have started this again today. I am not overweight and my BMI is lower end of normal, so feel a bit of a fraud BUT I am potentially apple shaped, and need to lose around 4lbs of flab around my tummy which means at the moment my waist is heading into the 'danger zone' for my height. (My mum has pre-diabetes, despite being slim, her mother and brother died from CVD.)

I always feel very very hungry.

For breakfast I had
2 eggs scrambled
1 medium mushroom cooked in 1 tsp olive oil

lunch I had a small apple.

I cannot go from breakfast to dinner with nothing. I start to feel sick.

How vital is is that you stick to 500 and not say 600 on fast days?

Tonight I am planning on small piece of steak and salad.

that will bring me up to around 550 cals.

BigChocFrenzy · 17/06/2019 15:05

Good luck, earslaps

Welcome, jingling Smile

Have 600 cals if you find that easier
The key is sustainability and also formng good habits on NFDs

Note: Mosely says FDs have no allowance for exercise

Most fasters have coffee for breakfast and then dive their calories between linch & dinner, if you want to try that

As you are already in the lower part of healthy BMI, loss is likely to be slower than average
However, stay focused d you should reach goal

With belly fat, boost veg, beans & protein

and on NFDs try to cut back on

  • junk, e.g. added sugar - cake, biscuits, chocs etc - and also crisps, pies, deep-fried food
  • alcohol - keep to NHS weekly and daily limits, i.e. 1 x 175 ml glass wine per NFD

On FDs, noone shouldn't be having any of those, of course

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 17/06/2019 15:06

divide their calories between lunch & dinner < spanks iPad >

OP posts:
JinglingHellsBells · 17/06/2019 15:10

@BigChocFrenz

Many thanks!

Fortunately or not I can't drink booze and have been teetotal for 20+ years ( it doesn't agree with me- nothing more than that.)

My weight gain round the middle is a result of nibbling and eating too much of 'good stuff' usually healthy nuts, and slightly less exercise over the last few weeks. But I have to curb it now rather than waiting till there is half a stone to shift.

Pineappleunder · 17/06/2019 15:38

Struggling today. I've eaten what I usually do on a fast day but have a headache and feel really tired. I tried the marmite thing for the first time about an hour ago but no difference yet.
I think I'll take some paracetamol and go for an early dinner and an early night.

Earslaps · 17/06/2019 15:56

Jingling- some people lose weight perfectly well doing FDs of 600 or even slightly more, but it really depends on the individual what works for them, how slowly they are happy to lose, what their TDEE is etc. I found that I needed to work downwards towards 500 calories as the first few fasts were hard!

A lot of seasoned fasters also delay their first meal as long as possible- as soon as I eat I get more hungry! If I can hang on as long as possible I find the fast much easier.

LeukaeLucky · 17/06/2019 17:11

Had a good day so far with
L: grilled steak, salad and tomatoes with olive oil
Slice of bread
Nectarine
Snack: mini cheddar
D: the plan is to have watermelon and nectarine
Did 45 minutes of aqua gym
Trying to be super good ahead of a weekend in Paris where I'll be eating loads

Fillybuster · 17/06/2019 21:15

Good FD - coffee and lots of water dealt with hangover, no meds needed Grin - and excellent gym classes tonight. Although it annoys me no end that my fit bit doesn’t recognise my abs class as most of it is lying down....so even though I’m totally drenched by the end of 30 mins, it doesnt seem to notice!

Going to have a quorn ready meal and some gazpacho instead of tagine once I’ve had a shower. Grabbed a few celery sticks for that mid afternoon munch moment - I know I’d be better off not snacking at all, but at least this way it’s not too damaging.

Welcome to all the newbies and welcome back to everyone else...off to read thread now :)

nolongersurprised · 17/06/2019 21:27

How vital is is that you stick to 500 and not say 600 on fast days?

I have gone from 75kg to 63kg never managing a 500cal FD, I’d say they were all sub 700. It was obvious from the onset it was still working for me though.

clitterati don’t feel discouraged if the FDs are really hard to start with. I was a snacker (hence the weight gain in my 40s) and my first 4 were really hard. Now I usually don’t even notice I haven’t eaten till about 2pm.

43 I’m sorry about your awful holiday. I failed holiday is grim just because you look forward to them so much.

FD1 here and TOTM is lurking and I have a sore throat and I feel grim. On the other hand, a FD with lots of fluid is good to clear out some of the related fluid retention.

BigChocFrenzy · 17/06/2019 21:41

The exercise sounds excellent filly
Celery is fine

Reminders for newbies (filly knows this):
. you aren't allowed to add back exercise calories on FDs
. on NFDs, better to account for exercise via TDEE than gadgets

I hope your throat is better tomorrow, surprised
Fasting really helps release retained water at the end of totm, but might help a little during it
Main thing is to avoid the totm carby / fatty munchies on NFDs

OP posts:
Fillybuster · 17/06/2019 22:41

Closing the kitchen on 538 (forgot to allow for my two spoons of marmite!).

Hi Earslaps, and welcome Jingling.

How did you get on in the end Pineapple?

BigChocFrenzy · 17/06/2019 22:51

Well done, Filly

OP posts:
Fillybuster · 17/06/2019 23:09

Thanks BigChoc - really grateful for all your encouragement and amazing advice Smile Flowers How are you getting on?

Sorry you’re not feeling so good, Surprised - hope the FD went ok anyway?

BigChocFrenzy · 17/06/2019 23:14

30-35C most of the week - I'm sweltering !

OP posts:
Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 18/06/2019 07:11

Morning everyone, still not read back through the thread but happy to announce a good nfd yesterday :-) fd today, I'm feeling a bit grotty like I'm fighting some bugs but will crack on. Good luck fellow Tues fasters Smile

OohMrDarcy · 18/06/2019 07:40

Morning all, checking in for my Tuesday FD here. Food shop arriving this morning and am looking forward to my sainsburys be good to yourself Cesar salad later.

BigChocFrenzy · 18/06/2019 07:45

Good luck, 43, MrD and any other Tuesday fasters

I hope you feel better soon, 43
Drink plenty of water and have a black coffee
Don't fast if you have a fever though

Sounds yum, MrD

OP posts:
EssentialHummus · 18/06/2019 08:06

Hello, signing in too 43 and mrd. I have the same salad dressing in my fridge mrd! I normally just have it with a big pile of lettuce leaves, a few cucumbers and tomato. Good luck today.

BigChocFrenzy · 18/06/2019 08:15

Good luck, hummus

OP posts:
NewStartYetAgain · 18/06/2019 09:48

Hi I'm jumping back on the 5:2 plan, have dabbled before but never managed to stick with it long enough.

Weighed in at a record 13st 12.2lb yesterday, only 0.4lb lighter than after giving birth to my youngest. I have never got back on top of the baby weight since having him, he turns 6 next month.

I'm tired of feeling lethargic, unhealthy and fat. I am only 5ft 2 so struggling with about 4stone in excess weight. I have hyper mobile joints which are really struggling now too so I really need to do this for all sorts of reasons.

I'm also terrified of dying young, I lost my Dad at 51 due to a heart problem. I turned 40 last month so this is all playing on my mind.

I am a yo yo dieter who has totally lost all idea of normality around food. I am hoping 5:2 will reset the mess I have made so far and I can get on top of this once and for all.

I will also be dropping junk food and junky white carbs/sugar.

Any support/advice you can offer would be greatly accepted, I am so fed up of feeling like shit!

Thanks for reading and sorry for the essay. First fast day is today!!

LeukaeLucky · 18/06/2019 09:56

FD for me too and woke up hungry :(
I feel frustrated by the very slow progression I'm not sure if it's because of the drugs I'm taking or the menopause but with all the activities I'm doing + calorie restrictions I should have lost more.
I guess it's not just about the scales...