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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 85: No need to tell people you are fasting - just show them your results.

968 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 03/05/2019 10:15

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" to maintain on the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally"
means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below if you need a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: Mosely TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc Frame
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: BFat Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units

FD Recipes:
Mosely LowCarb , low carb Diet Doc
BBC Good Food 52 , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know ,
Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals

Any Day:
Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
nolongersurprised · 14/06/2019 23:13

Im down 400g to 63 now, BMI is exactly 22. 1kg to go! My second FD has become a bit loose, sub 800 probably but it still seems to be working so I’ll stick with it.

Good luck to the people in the northern hemisphere finishing their Friday FDs

BigChocFrenzy · 14/06/2019 23:30

Well done on your SV, surprised
So near to goal

OP posts:
OohMrDarcy · 15/06/2019 08:50

Well done surprised!

Looks like an STS week for me this time. Not too bothered as had hardly any in nearly 6 months now! I shall keep on and see a good loss next week I'm sure.

Have a good weekend all!

orangeshoebox · 15/06/2019 10:03

sooo dh went and bought an exercise bench.
we have one long 'staff' weight, the size of a walking stick but heavy (no idea what it's called) and a few pairs of hand weights, 2 3 and 5 kg.

what are good exercises for my upper body?
(I walk a lot and cycle and take the stairs at work because the lift is so bloody slow)

BigChocFrenzy · 15/06/2019 10:42

Don't worry, MrD bound to happen occasionally,
as you have lost so much and nailed several milestones

That's brilliant of your OH, orange
That long weight sounds like some sort of barbell

Upper body lifts on the bench:

bench press, pullover, upright press, side lift, front lift, biceps, triceps

Select a weight you can lift with moderate effort - often different weights for different lifts
Build up to say 3 sets of 10 reps each
You might only be able to manage a few reps at first, but you'll soon build up strength
Try to do them 2-3 times per week

Also add abs (bodyweight): crunches, situps

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 15/06/2019 10:46

You could also add squats & lunges (on the ground, or a step)
as that will work bum and thighs in a different way to cycling & walking

OP posts:
claptomania · 15/06/2019 11:13

Well done surprised! Really amazing progress.

orange there are loads of good routine videos on youtube. If you have weights at home, try looking up BodyPump. I’ve been doing the upper body routines, with free weights rather than the bar.

2nd fast day went well yesterday. Weighed in this morning and I’ve maintained at just over 70kg, which isn’t too bad considering.

I actually got a call from the hospital A&E dept yesterday - they reviewed my X-ray again and have now decided that I do in fact probably have a fracture Shock. Which I’ve been walking around on all week.

claptomania · 15/06/2019 11:14

Sorry, you do have a bar. Bodypump would be perfect then!

LeukaeLucky · 15/06/2019 11:30

I've started 5.2 16/8 at the beginning of the month. I'm struggling to stay under 500. Thanks for all the tips and links OP

LeukaeLucky · 15/06/2019 11:33

Lost 2kilos so far and have been doing gentle exercise almost every day for minimum 30min

claptomania · 15/06/2019 11:47

Welcome Leukae sounds like a strong start!
orange example: m.youtube.com/watch?v=fc3Bkp9XR4U

LeukaeLucky · 15/06/2019 12:13

@claptomania thanks 😊💪

BigChocFrenzy · 15/06/2019 12:41

Welcome, lucky 🙂

Well done on your SV and your regular exercise

Fasting gets easier after the first 2-3 weeks
As you are losing well atm, don't worry if you need to ease in with 7-800 FDs, so long as the NFDs are sensible

orange For a kickstart, you could try JM One-Week SHRED

https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x72yiay

OP posts:
LeukaeLucky · 15/06/2019 15:08

@BigChocFrenzy thanks I tend to be around 1200 on nfd and I could be on 1450 so fairly reasonable.
I use the app lifesum and when I exercise it adds more calories entitlement. Is that the way to go or should I stick to the initial allocation to ensure weight loss?

BigChocFrenzy · 15/06/2019 17:44

Lucky Gadgets, apps, calculators etc tend to over-estimate extra calories from exercise / activity
So I recommend ignoring what they say wrt extra calories allowed on particular days

Instead, best to allow for exercise on NFDs only via TDEE activity level
and use Mosely's TDEE Calc - some others may not be as accurate

He recommends that exercisers calculate with one activity lvel lower than they think

This TDEE gives an average daily target over the 5 NFDs

  • many folk like to save up some calories from the other NFDs or the weekend / a birthday celebration etc

On FDs,__ regardless of how much exercise, there are no extra calories

OP posts:
LeukaeLucky · 15/06/2019 18:41

Thanks. I didn't realise you could save up some of your calories for special days 😊 my TDEE is 1748 cal. It seems huge

BigChocFrenzy · 15/06/2019 20:19

1750 TDEE is decent.
You could vary the days, e.g. eat 1500 on 3 NFDs and allow the extra 750 over the weekend, or for a big meal out.

Make sure you eat up to TDEE if you feel hungry, but when you are no longer hungry, then stop eating - no problem being under TDEE.

OP posts:
LeukaeLucky · 15/06/2019 21:47

Great thankyou so much very useful x

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 17/06/2019 07:36

Morning everyone.... slinks back in and hopes nobody notices I've had a horrid couple of weeks that's included a disaster of a holiday and lots of stress and upheaval at work so feeling very sorry for myself which has meant no fds and lots over comfort eating Sad

Anyway, I've given myself a good talking to and it's a fresh start today. Plan is to get a good nfd under my belt that doesn't end in lots of wine and snacks, then fd tomorrow and Fri.

Will catch up on the thread hopefully today too.....

OohMrDarcy · 17/06/2019 07:38

43, you're back!!

Well done for getting back in the saddle sp quickly. Sounds like your plan matches mine so we can motivate each other this week

BigChocFrenzy · 17/06/2019 07:44

Well done for restarting, 43 after all you have been coping with
A couple of good weeks and you'll zap that gain

Focus on not snacking, plenty of water and keeping NHS limits = 1 glass daily max

Good luck to you too, MrD and keep drinking water too
Do you still keep your water bottle with you always ?

OP posts:
cheesenpickles · 17/06/2019 07:48

I am absolutely loving this! I'm 10 days in and 10lbs down already. Last year I spent six months calorie counting and I'm only about 2lbs away from my lowest weight on that already!

Few NSVs too, I bought a hoodie before I went on holiday in May and bought it a size too big for bagginess and wore it yesterday and it absolutely swamped me. And my fil took us to Costco yesterday and halved a load of cakes and biscuits etc and I've had absolutely no urge to eat them.

I wish I had done this years ago.

BigChocFrenzy · 17/06/2019 08:14

Congratulations on your SV, cheese
Also on your clothes NSV and forming healthier eating habits

Great start

OP posts:
OohMrDarcy · 17/06/2019 09:38

Congratulations cheese - what a great start!

Yes BigChoc - 9/10 the water is with me... I wasn't so great at drinking it this weekend as had a bit of an odd one, suspect because the DC were with their dad as they should be, and mine now lives in spain so no fathers day visit there. Anyhoo back to normal now and downing the water once more.

Fillybuster · 17/06/2019 11:04

Wow, well done Cheese! Amazing results already Grin

Welcome back 43 - sorry to hear you’ve had a tough few weeks. I definitely find NFDs harder than FDs...good luck today!

On that point:

Checking in for a FD with a killer hangover. Big black tie event last night, so I fasted all day in advance (good) and did a killer workout (even better) but then completely forgot I hadn’t eaten all day when we arrived and had whiskey on an empty stomach (less good...) and then quite a bit more through the evening (I would say “bad” but it was lovely and great fun!). Amazingly I’m exiting the weekend at the same weight I went in (10.2.6) so maybe all the crazy dancing helped!

Plan is to push through today, do a HIIT abs class followed by Pilates (fingers crossed a spoon of marmite will resolve the awful leg cramps I got the last three weeks!) and then close out with that rather nice buttenut squash tagine.

More importantly, although I have a (close) colleague’s leaving drinks one evening after work, there’s no other big meals or events in the diary this week, for the first time in ages. So I’ve booked myself into gym class nearly every evening & I’m looking forward to having a normal week and hopefully actually losing 1 or 2 lbs Halo