Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 85: No need to tell people you are fasting - just show them your results.

968 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 03/05/2019 10:15

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" to maintain on the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally"
means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below if you need a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: Mosely TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc Frame
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: BFat Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units

FD Recipes:
Mosely LowCarb , low carb Diet Doc
BBC Good Food 52 , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know ,
Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals

Any Day:
Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Fillybuster · 13/06/2019 14:12

I’m not sure you are in search of company Oranges but I’m in the same boat...is it encroaching old age? I assumed it was just a lousy month...!

BigChocFrenzy · 13/06/2019 14:57

orange, filly Sounds like the joys of perimenopause - heavy & irregular ?
Cheer up, it only lasts 5-10 years, then full on meno starts ....

Anyway, postpone the FD for a better day

OP posts:
orangeshoebox · 13/06/2019 15:08

I hope it's just a lousy month filly
a bit unecpected after decades of 'clockwork'

Fillybuster · 13/06/2019 15:09

Thanks BigChoc - very reassuring ConfusedHmm

BigChocFrenzy · 13/06/2019 15:17

It happens to us all (who are women) but you get through it and then the whole no period thing is great and makes up for everything Grin

OP posts:
claptomania · 13/06/2019 19:03

Peri/meno sounds utterly rubbish orange and filly - but you'll be battling any impending middle aged spread with IF as you enter that phase. This is definitely one of my motivations too!

Sounds like you may have torn a ligament - Have you been to the GP
Nice space boot thing :)
Things are getting better I think, so definitely a sprain but only a mild one.
Just to add to the fun, the baby now has chicken pox, so I will stuck inside for even longer. Poor spotty little chap is so uncomfortable, and we're buckling in for some rough nights.

However. I've just ordered some heavier weights and a yoga mat. Take that, universe, or whatever it is conspiring to stop me exercising
< shakes fist at sky >

FD tomorrow.

claptomania · 13/06/2019 19:06

mini egg and avocado pots from m&s

I read that as avocados and actual mini eggs, filly. Yeurck.

OohMrDarcy · 13/06/2019 20:14

Sorry to hear about the peri sounding symptoms for some of you. I have an implant at the moment and one of the reasons I looked at 5:2 was to try and sort myself out before that phase came! Hope things settle for you both soon.

Friday FD for me tomorrow, anyone else going for it?

BigChocFrenzy · 13/06/2019 20:41

< sticks hand up > Me, MrD Smile
We'll encourage each other

It's miserable being stuck indoors, clap
but try to focus on the walks you can enjoy together when the babe is well enough

Research suggests being outside has genuine health benefits

A large-scale study indicates it brings both physical and mental health benefits

Walking is already known to help the "excutive functions" of the brain
Hence my frequent suggestions of a walk outside when you can, to combine walking & outside
Great as a cooldown too, after more strenuous exercise

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/jun/13/two-hour-dose-nature-weekly-boosts-health-study-finds

"two hours in nature could join five a dayy* of fruit and veg and 150 minutes of exercise a week as official health advice"

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 13/06/2019 20:43

@Iamblossom Have your broken bones knit together yet ?
How are you doing ?

OP posts:
SmiledWithTheRisingSun · 13/06/2019 21:14

Hello.
I've been away for a few months and I've just done a FD2 for the week.
For some reason it's getting easier this time round Smile
Right just need to stick to it then this time! 😳
Hope everyone's having a good week.

OohMrDarcy · 13/06/2019 22:05

Completely agree on the being outside BigChoc, it's a reason why I walk with my DS to school whenever possible. It ALWAYS means he goes in in a good mood, no matter how tired / fedup he might be.. by the end of that 15 min ish walk he is a happy boy once more.

Welcome back smiled, keep posting. It helps when you are getting into the swing!

claptomania · 13/06/2019 22:06

Well done on a successful fast day, smiled
I’m also fasting tomorrow MrD

Fillybuster · 13/06/2019 22:19

Well done on the FDs everyone Smile

Another fail on the NFD front here. Started well but then completely forgot about my lovely food supplies when we finally broke for a working lunch at 2 pm and ended up eating 4 half wraps (although 2 were just filled with salad). Would have maybe been okish if we hadnt broken out team snacks on the 3 hour train journey back...I tried to resist but didn’t quite manage it. Dinner with dh was fab but, overall I definitely ate more than I planned today. Really cross that I forgot about my mini egg (Clap - that made me laugh GrinGrin) as it would have been much nicer than what was on offer.
Ok, you live and learn.
Well done everyone - really impressive & inspiring to read how well it’s going for some people!
Mini FD tomorrow : if I can manage it I will fast until family dinner then 1 plate rule, decent portion poached chicken, seconds of veg and avoid dessert. Let’s see if I can do this!!

BigChocFrenzy · 14/06/2019 06:14

Welcome back, smiled

Good luck, clap

OP posts:
cheesenpickles · 14/06/2019 07:09

Hi everybody, can I join. I started 16:8 last week and seem to have ended up doing Keto as well. I'm struggling to get my calories some days so feeling tempted to maybe throw 5:2 in the mix later on.

I've just done my first week's weigh-in and I'm down 8.5lbs. Really chuffed. I want to lose another 75lbs but I'm going to aim for 50lbs first and reassess from there. Smile

SmiledWithTheRisingSun · 14/06/2019 07:29

Thanks bigchoc
Feeling happy this morning as just had a weigh in after FD2 yesterday and am 3lbs down 🥳
Have a lovely weekend everyone!

OohMrDarcy · 14/06/2019 07:33

Congrats on the first SV smiled, always a good motivator!!

Welcome cheese, try and make sure you arent doing so much with it that it becomes unsustainable.

FD for me, soup for lunch and some chicken and veg combo for dinner. Happy Friday!

cheesenpickles · 14/06/2019 07:54

That's brilliant @SmiledWithTheRisingSun

Thanks @OohMrDarcy and yes, definitely agree with that. Trying to take it slowly at the moment and making sure I'm tracking so I'm getting enough. I'm a big time overeater/grazer so just trying to kick those habits at the moment.

BigChocFrenzy · 14/06/2019 15:13

Welcome, cheese 🙂
and congratulations on your SV

That's a great start
However, make sure you don't feel too hungry - as you've got 75lb to lose, your WOE needs to be sustainable for months
and your rate of loss would probably be quite high for the first several weeks anyway, without pushing yourself too hard

I recommend using this WOE to form good habits for the longterm

  • Try to keep 5:2 / IF healthy habits, even at weekends:
  • NHS alcohol limits,
  • NEVER snack / graze between meals,
  • have sensible amount of treats and only as part of a meal
  • lots of water & veg
  • cut down on flavoured fizzy drinks, even diet ones

If you move to 5:2, then on FDs:

  • No alcohol
  • No junk, especially sugary junk - so no sweets, choc, biscuits, cake, pastry, crisps. deep-fried food etc

Well done on your SV too, smiled

Sounds good, MrD

OP posts:
Fillybuster · 14/06/2019 15:20

Welcome Cheese and well done Smiled.

How’s the FD going Mr D and BCF?

I was back to 10.4 today, so 3 weeks and no change overall. I keep getting close to 10 stone after FD 1 or 2 each week, and then it shoots back up as soon as I eat again! I’m starting to log everything on MFP, and getting an idea of where the issues are, but so so so annoying to feel stuck like this!

Having a mini FD today, as weekends are always tough and I would like to close out the week in a better place. I have a big black tie event on Sunday evening and had hoped to be a few lbs down by now, which would make clothing decisions much easier. I so hate having to choose from the handful of things that fit, when I have a wardrobe of nice clothes that are all just a bit too tight. More motivation, right?!

blodynmawr · 14/06/2019 15:36

Agree @BigChocFrenzy re the benefits of daily morning walks. Wouldn't miss them for the world, even this week during the storms.
Am going through another plateau at the moment as have not lost for a few weeks... Equally have had quite a few work and social events which prob explains. Here's to a better week to comeSmile

BigChocFrenzy · 14/06/2019 16:41

filly, blodyn It is probably the number of social events that is causing the sts / plateau

During the weight loss phase, one feast meal per week is normally no problem
However, depending on the individual, more than one can mean very slow loss or even none

So if you have quite a lot of social events, then try to keep to:
.1 plate per course
. no seconds except veg
. no accompaniments
. no nibbles beforehand - no crisps, nuts etc
. just 1 glass wine.

OP posts:
OohMrDarcy · 14/06/2019 17:50

Kitchen closed on 512 and feeling good.

BigChocFrenzy · 14/06/2019 18:13

Well done, MrD
I've just finished the last slurp of mine too

OP posts: