5:2 Thread number 85: No need to tell people you are fasting - just show them your results.

[BigChocFrenzy]

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" to maintain on the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally"
means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below if you need a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: Mosely TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc Frame
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: BFat Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units

FD Recipes:
Mosely LowCarb , low carb Diet Doc
BBC Good Food 52 , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know ,
Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals

Any Day:
Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie

FAQs / Tips

• WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
• HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
• SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
• EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.

HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.

• FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.

Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.

• BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.

You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.

• NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.

• Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.

• CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

Well done mrD, great NSV! Glad the whooping cough is on its way out finally.

Well done on your FD, hummus
uneven floors are such a nuisance when it comes to weighing

That's excellent news, MrD
You sound very cheerful and on your way back to feeling strong again

My new scales seem to weigh me at the same weight as my old ones in my bathroom (where the old ones are), I’ll take it!!

Lovely to hear you are feeling good MrD.

FD here. I realised I must be feeling better this morning as on a ‘very low effort’ row my 500m split time was back to normal for me.

Happy Monday fasters 😁.

So glad you’re feeling better MrD - and congrats on your NSV 😊

We’ve got two sets of scales, Box, and the ones in the dcs bathroom consistently have me at 2lbs higher. Even in the same place in my bathroom! Guess which ones I’m sticking with for now?

Tea party was great fun, and dh had a lovely time. I massively overcatered, but people made a good effort. I was so busy, it stopped me overeating too badly - I did have a mini scone with clotted cream and jam, and a couple of slices of puff pasty ‘pizza’, and well as some of the rather scrummy hot pie I served, but I mostly avoided the crisps, other cakes, dips etc etc. And just had one g&t. Oh, and I did have a slice of dh’s birthday cheesecake for lunch, too (gosh, that’s quite a lot!) but overall I didn't go too crazy, considering it went on until 8pm in the end. We didn’t have dinner, which probably helped, and thankfully the scales only read 10.4.2 this morning, which is better than it might have been (plus it’s TOTM, so there’s maybe a 1lb or 2 associated with that?)

Aiming for an MFD today, if I can get away with it. I have strict rules about not fasting around the dcs if they might notice (I won’t ever talk about diets, body issues etc, and try to avoid anyone else doing it either - the girls, especially, get plenty of that in school sadly), and I’m spending today with preteen dd, who is especially sensitive to weight and food issues.

Right, off to do some parenting.....😀

Good luck with your fast today, box, filly

That's good you feel stronger, box - maybe cutting back on exercise has helped
So keep to a more relaxed program, TLC and don't start overdoing things again

Hi all, posting for a bit of support. Today is my first day of 5:2.

I'm 4ft 11" and weigh 13st 3lb so very overweight. I have no excuse, I eat too much, mostly out of boredom. I am hoping to learn myself how to accept and live with hunger and boredom.

I cycle everywhere. I have scheduled my fast days for Monday and Thursday. Today I have had breakfast which was yoghurt and melons, kiwi and pineapple which totalled 260 calories. I ate a breakfast because I cycle for an hour to work in the morning so do need the energy.

My dinner tonight is soup which is 230 calories

Welcome, wanna and good luck on your 1st FD

Lots of info & links in the OP under "How to Start"

We - and Mosely - recommend you have plenty of protein at each meal, FD & NFD, as it is more filling for longer
e.g. if you have breakfast, then egg & tomato

That much fruit has loads of sugar and will spike insulin , which may soon leave you hungry again

I also cycle to work, 16 km in the mornings and I find a black coffee is fine on FDs,
.... but I had to get used to that

Many of us use 5:2 to form healthier habits - permanently
and try to keep 5:2 healthy habits on NFDs, even at weekends:

• NHS alcohol limits,
• NEVER snack / graze between meals,
• have sensible amount of treats and only as part of a meal
• lots of water & veg
• cut down on flavoured fizzy drinks, even diet ones

Just sticking my head in post-abs and Pilates classes (yup, I went large!) to say it’s 8.20pm & so far I’ve only had 150cals...just need to ignore temptation post-gym and I might be able to achieve an actual FD!!

Hello all. After having done really well for the first two weeks, the third one fell apart a bit. I did manage two fast days, but I had a day and night in a local resort hotel, and I drank lots, ate chocolate all sorts else. The next day was a bit of a hangover day, and I went from feeling strong to eating anything. No gain, but no loss either. This week has started well, though we have a number of amazing specials on in work tonight that are killing me! I made the veg tagine mentioned upthread before coming in, with the intention of freezing some portions for later. Both daughters swooped in though. Swines. Was lovely, but I added a few apricots for sweetness.
I'm going to fast on my next evening shift on Wednesday, but then I'm off for a week and a half. Not going away until Sunday, so I'll do a mini fast on Friday I think, as I doubt I'll fast whilst away. This break is very necessary and has been a long time coming, I'm going to hide my phone, ignore what's app, cuddle my dug and read excessive trashy fiction.

Good luck filly
You're almost there now - clean your teeth early, to avoid temptation

Enjoy your holiday, mimia
Have a break then and forget fasting until you return

• just try to remember the NHS alcohol limits, lots of water and no snacking between meals

Thanks for the welcomes yesterday, nice to have some people to share this journey with.
Well done to all who had a FD day today.
I have done my first weigh in and........
5 pounds off! I am over the moon.
I know I won't see that sort of loss every week but it is great as a motivator.

Congratulations on your SV, Ale
A very encouraging start for you

Hope the FD went well Box? I’m closing out with a surprising 650, which I will happily take as a FD, thank you

Mimia, hold onto the good news: you didn’t gain anything, and now you know what to do...back on the bus and off we go!

Welcome Ale (& congrats on your loss!) and IWanna. How did your first FDs go? It does get easier, especially as you learn to make different choices. IWanna - as BCF said, you may find protein, or at least vegetables, are a better breakfast choice.....and it may be worth challenging yourself to see if maybe you can cycle on an empty stomach, or cup of coffee, and save your calories for later in the day? I may be wrong but I think there’s some research about exercise on an empty stomach being more effective for fat burning/ ketosis?

Off to bed. Good luck to everyone fasting tomorrow!

Morning all, checking in for my Tuesday FD here. It's raining and wet and the hearing has kicked in so looks like winter is back 🙄 lots of cups of tea today I expect!!

Congrats Ale on the SV!

Welcome ale, welcome wanna. FD here too mrd - as I type the sun is poking through the clouds, but we have amber warnings for flooding round my way this week so I expect it will be short-lived!

And yes, heating back on overnight!

Welcome Ale 😁.

Good FD Filly. Mine was fine, 780 cals. I didn’t come back yesterday because I work v late on Mondays (which can be good for fasting!)

I might do another 800 today, I have just made myself a smoothie for breakfast and will see how it goes.

Good luck MrD. I drink tons of herbal tea on cold FDs, I have a draw in my office with a better selection than the local coffee shops 😂.

Well done on your FD, filly, Box
Good luck, MrD, Hummus, Box and any other Tuesday fasters

Remember, take it easy with the exercise, Box until you feel 100% again

2 days of storms expected here, but no heating on as it's a clammy 23C after weeks of mostly 28-35 C
< puts on yellow rain trousers & jacket for cycle commute >

Good luck Mr D & Hummus (& Box too, if you decide to go for it!). I love the Pukka tea range: there’s a caffeine one called Vanilla Chai which is wonderful for fooling my brain into thinking it’s had a sugar fix / teatime treat on a cold FD!

Big work dinner tonight so definitely not fasting today but am trying to come up with a sensible eating plan to avoid going off the rails at dinner (especially since it’s an Indian - some of my favourite food!).

BCF/anyone - I won’t be eating until midday earliest, would welcome veggie/fish suggestions brunch/lunch suggestions!

Hello all, haven't checked in for a while. It's been a very social and busy few weeks with lots of end of school-year and going away dinners, drinks, BBQs etc. I tried to have had a couple of mini fast days but no real FDs for two weeks until yesterday. Consequently, I have stayed around 60kgs. Ultimately, I'm aiming to get to a goal weight of 58/59 kgs.

Tomorrow we leave for holidays in France for 2 months! (DH is french). This is lovely and exciting, but I am afraid of the temptations of all the delicious food and wine and being away from my regular exercise classes. I feel that two months is too long to just eat sensibly and resume FDs on our return. So I'll be trying to fast at least once a week and eat reasonably sensibly. Is this even possible on holiday and in France??

Ignore previous. Buckled after the tube journey from hell & picked up a (small!) portion of poached eggs, feta & avocado in a spicy tomato sauce on my way into the office, with the worlds smallest piece of pita bread! hopefully will stop snacking through the morning...

@Ithinkyourewonderful I’m impressed you’ve maintained at 60! I’ve done full and mini FDs very successfully on holidays - it’s even easier if you tend to have picnic style lunches with the family, for example. My trick was to skip breakfast, and stick to the veg (tomatoes, cucumbers etc) at lunch, with maybe a very small amount of protein, and then have fresh fish with some veg for dinner. Most of the time no one noticed I wasn’t eating, and it was fairly easy to maintain twice a week. Good luck!

Good luck Tuesday fasters!
I’m still largely immobile, which is super frustrating. Plus DH is having to do all the dog walking and childcare dropoffs.
On the other hand am doing ok at eating to TDEE and not snacking, with the exception of a friend popping round with a carrot cake muffin made specially for me, but that was a real exception (and would have been actively rude not to). Also managed a 45 mins upper body weights session last night, thanks to Youtube & Amazon Prime weights delivery.
Now sitting in a coffee shop with foot up, an Americano, and planning out my Weds & Friday fast day meals.
BTW it has probably come up in the past, but this blogger has posted some lovely looking 5:2 recipes:
www.lavenderandlovage.com/category/recipes/general-recipes/5-2-diet

Making a plan and sticking to it is really the key to a fast day, I’ve realised.

Hello there. I am planning to start 5:2 tomorrow on a FD. I've recently put on a few pounds (I think Menopause related). 'Watching my weight' isn't really cutting it so I thought I'd try the 5:2 for 2 months before I go on holiday in August. Will I see results in that time? I am 140lbs but usually a slim build and 5'7". Thanks for any first-timer tips - looking through the threads I see I need to get very organised!