Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 85: No need to tell people you are fasting - just show them your results.

968 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 03/05/2019 10:15

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" to maintain on the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally"
means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below if you need a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: Mosely TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc Frame
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: BFat Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units

FD Recipes:
Mosely LowCarb , low carb Diet Doc
BBC Good Food 52 , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know ,
Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals

Any Day:
Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
HLBug · 30/05/2019 08:29

Checking in for a Thursday FD Smile

OohMrDarcy · 30/05/2019 09:03

Morning all

Welcome to all you lovely newbies / returners... we are a supportive bunch so post as much as you need!

NFD for me - and I'm going for my Friday FD - back to eating well and drinking plenty of water which is helping lift my mood in between coughing fits!

Lania - congrats on the massive SV!

Fillybuster · 30/05/2019 11:29

Thanks for the welcome back! I’ve realised that I’ve built up so many bad eating habits over the past few years....for ages I was able to “get away” with it because I balanced my overall calorie intake (eg eating a dunkin donut at my desk but then skipping lunch) but what’s happened is that I now snack all the time at work, then still have a proper lunch and dinner, don’t do any exercise, and guess what happened to my weight...?! Will take a while to move past the self loathing, I think.

At least I know I can cope with fasting, although there’s a difference between knowing it in my head and actually doing it. Today is day 1.

Can I please check if it’s still 500 on FDs and uncounted (but sensible....) on NFDs? And if it’s still ok for me to save most or all of the 500 for one meal in the evening? Oh hang on, rookie error....off to read up properly via FAQs Grin

@BigChocFrenzy do I remember you from my first time on here? Thanks so much for all the tips!

FD today. Fingers crossed. Luckily I love marmite Grin

BigChocFrenzy · 30/05/2019 11:34

Congratulations, Lania
55lb is fantastic and a great encouragement to others starting, who want to lose a lot.

If you find BSD / Fast800 too tough, you can always return earlier to 5:2,
or do BSD 5:2 (5:2 with 800 FDs and Mosely's daily Mediterranean low carb)

Be proud and be seen, captain !
I hope you see some interesting houses

You sound on the mend, MrD and slotting into your familiar fasting WOE
Take life slowly, with much TLC for the next couple of months
and bugger housework etc for that period - no more than the absolute bare minimum

Good luck, bug
Drink water !

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 30/05/2019 11:44

filly
FDs
Most women lose best with 500 cal FDs rather than 800
BUT
it's 1000 cals for EBF, 700 for other BF or (FF) first few months after birth

or 800 cals if you are either restarting gently after a serious illness (like MrD)
or have a high (2200+) TDEE, i.e. man / lots to lose / tall & young / v intense exerciser / ....

NFDs
Most people can lose on 5:2 without counting calories, just eating "normally", some treats but not going mad

  • it really helps to stick to the daily 5:2 healthy rules posted upthread,
especially NHS alcohol limits and never snacking

If you find after the initial loss that you are not losing as quickly as expected,
then you may need to retrain your "normal" as it is probably significantly higher than your TDEE

mfp is a good tool for that - often just 1 week is enough to highlight hidden calorie bombs, too much sugar or booze, or just portion size, so you know what to work on

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 30/05/2019 11:47

filly Sounds like step 1 is no snacking or grazing ever
while working on accepting yourself without loathing

We certainly don't loathe you, so you aren't allowed to, either !

OP posts:
SpottyDuvet · 30/05/2019 11:53

Fasting today - I keep wavering on it so thought I’d better get on here and announce it so I have to stick to it! I may fast again tomorrow or Sunday depending on what we’re doing tomorrow. So will aim for 500 but can decide tonight if it’s a B2B.

Soup is the order of the day I think!

BigChocFrenzy · 30/05/2019 13:36

Good luck, spotty
Your name has been written down for an FD, so we need a report by EOB today Grin

OP posts:
TheMShip · 30/05/2019 15:28

Wow that's amazing lania! I'm really impressed.

Filly I'm another recent returner. I'm doing 4:3 on 1000 calorie mini FDs. My sedentary TDEE is ~2000, I'm 5'7" 14st9.4 today, and was aiming for 14st7 by my 40th birthday in about five weeks from now. It's going really well, I find 4:3 easy to cope with and plan to slowly drop them to 800 as I lose. I struggle with 500, get dizzy and feel very faint. So this works for me. I love how flexible this WOE is, and BCF is great at tailoring plans to the individual.

Laniakea · 30/05/2019 15:35

Thanks everyone :) it’s weird, I don’t think my brain has caught up with how much I’ve lost. I feel so much better - no reflux, no backache, niggles in knees & hips gone, I sleep better, am so so much fitter - but I still can’t see it (despite dropping lots of dress sizes)! I’m so much happier though :)

21 pounds to my next goal then another 21 to get to the weight I’d really like to be.

Fillybuster · 30/05/2019 18:09

So, my first FD has been fine so far. One can of DC (I know...!) and lots of water. No major pangs, and no headaches - with the major benefit of working from home today, so I could take the dog for a walk at lunchtime instead of thinking about food Grin

But I’m signed up to a “legs, bums & tums” class a time the gym this evening and I sooooooo don’t want to go! I went last week and was in agony the next day, and that was without fasting at the same time. Doesn’t help that once I get home, I’ll still have to put dcs to bed and shower before I can start cooking my dinner....so it’s going to be hours yet before I finally get to eat anything today. I need a kick up the backside right now!

Hope everyone else’s FDs are going smoothly?

BigChocFrenzy · 30/05/2019 19:16

It's great to hear how much better you feel, lania
Those are really important health & wellbeing NSVs

I bet other people have noticed your new size

  • you'll get used to thinking of yourself as a slimmer person
Pat yourself on the back and tell yourself you've done brilliantly Smile

Filly Kick, KICK - go to the class ! Grin
You'll soon get fitter and then won't suffer afterwards

If you only exercise intensely once per week, that's the most painful schedule
Try to add another 2 days of classes, first an extra one day, then the 2nd too.

OP posts:
HLBug · 30/05/2019 19:17

FD closing on about 800 which is fine for me. Soooo tiiiired though. An early night is definitely required.

BigChocFrenzy · 30/05/2019 19:17

You're making excellent progress, Mship
That system sounds nice and sustainable for you

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 30/05/2019 19:18

Well done, bug
Night, night

OP posts:
Fillybuster · 30/05/2019 19:46

Well done Bug! Get some sleep - you’re doing amazingly!

Well, I made it to the class, and am now a sweating, swearing puddle...and completely buzzing! 😀😀😀 I’m aiming for 3-4 times a week at the moment, along with an hour or so horse riding once a week (my favourite time of the week!!) but it’s hard to commit to specific classes because of my work schedule, so I have to flex a bit. Dh is being super supportive (at the moment...let’s see if that lasts...Hmm) as he’s been nagging me about my health (not my weight!!) for ages. I’d love to start Body Pump again but I’ve had some back issues, so at the moment aiming for 2 abs classs, one legs/bums/tums and one Pilates session a week. Trying to find my core again under all those donuts 😂
Have downloaded MFP, so will spend this evening trying to figure it out. Thanks BigChoc for the prompt about protein rather than carbs: I’ve cancelled my jacket potato plans and will (eventually) have a hot date with a piece of oven baked salmon, a teaspoon of mayo & some asparagus.

BigChocFrenzy · 30/05/2019 23:28

Well done for doing the class, filly
Now you can enjoy the sense of accomplishment
Your gym plan sounds good, as does your menu.

If you have potential back problems, then a spin class should avoid aggravating that, maybe instead of one abs class.
It should burn a good amount of calories, which would help your shape and reveal your core

OP posts:
boxlikeamarchhare · 31/05/2019 06:01

FD here, checking in for accountability 😁. B12 injection at 08:10 so I expect to feel like a new woman in a few hours.

nolongersurprised · 31/05/2019 12:28

Checking in as I can feel myself getting complacent.

Fasted Tuesday and Thursdays, both reasonably good. A few sugary NFDs which is unusual for me because sweet stuff is usually not my weakness. This included half a block of a particular type of chocolate (i won’t buy that again!) but I am still down a few hundred grams to 63.6kg. My “new” goal is 62kg, I don’t really mind how long it takes. My week day exercise has been non existent but the weekend should be better.

Good luck to the Friday fasters. It’s funny how much easier the FDs are now. My first few my body was OMG WHAT ARE YOU DOING?? and I was ravenous from 10am but now I genuinely forget about it for most of the day. Retraining my body not to demand food every few hours can only be a good thing.

OohMrDarcy · 31/05/2019 12:34

Hey all

Went to check in at 8.30 this morning and work hasn't stopped since!

Anyway, today is a Friday FD here got oxtail soup for my lunch.

Well done on the exercise Filly

Box - hope you are feeling better after the b12 injection!

TheMShip · 31/05/2019 13:05

Good luck to all Friday fasters! I'm having my mini lunch, pleased with myself for making it till 1 pm an hour later than usual. Feel fine, but the protein hit will be needed to make it through the day.

BigChocFrenzy · 31/05/2019 14:00

That's the way to go for a stretched target, surprised - nice & relaxed, no hurry
Sounds like you have adapted really well to the fasting WOE,
so after 62 kg, a 6:1 maintenance plan should be comfortably longerm sustainable

Good luck, Box, MrD, Mship

Ouch, Box, but worth it to become a new women
Enjoy your soup, MrD and your protein, Mship

Drink water, everyone !
26C here, but feels much hotter out walking. T and shorts here.
32C for the weekend Shock

OP posts:
Captainladder · 31/05/2019 15:07

Checking in for FD food avoidance!! Probably tofu or egg stir fry for dinner tonight, late as after kids have been swimming. Am quite resenting feeding them today 😂😂😂. Lots of tea and herbal tea and more water.... focusing on sense of achievement to come!!!

BigChocFrenzy · 31/05/2019 16:47

Good luck, captain
Stay focused, stay busy and the time will fly until supper

OP posts:
OohMrDarcy · 31/05/2019 18:12

Kitchen pretty much closed on 541 am about to go out to the cinema so if I'm struggling I can try and find something to top me up a bit, but I've got my water bottle and I'm good for now! Cajun chicken and veggies for dinner.

Swipe left for the next trending thread