5:2 Thread number 85: No need to tell people you are fasting - just show them your results.

[BigChocFrenzy]

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" to maintain on the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally"
means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below if you need a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: Mosely TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc Frame
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: BFat Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units

FD Recipes:
Mosely LowCarb , low carb Diet Doc
BBC Good Food 52 , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know ,
Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals

Any Day:
Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie

FAQs / Tips

• WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
• HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
• SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
• EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.

HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.

• FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.

Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.

• BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.

You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.

• NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.

• Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.

• CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

I had whooping cough as a child, MrD
It was dreadful and scary, but I have a lovely memory (from 55 years ago) of my late dad sponging me down and soothing me, one very bad night

Do take good care of yourself especially the next couple of months

• even after all symptoms have gone, your body will take a lot of time to recover full fitness.

So plenty of water, nutritious food, sleep.

box If you are hungry tonight, but can squeeze in your soup for 800 cals total, then I'd go for that

btw, I stick to 1 small crusty slice of bread if I have any on an FD

Also, ½ avocado is maybe what I'd choose on an NFD, as it's not very filling for about 170 cals - next time you could swap that for say another egg

Protein and plenty of low cal veg is the best way to get the most bang for your FD calorie buck

I can do this I can do this I can do this!!!

Lost count of amount of trips to the loo - forgot about the massive water loss when starting to fast plus increase of liquids!! Have had coffee with coconut milk, miso, herbal teas and now having a marmite drink. Working on a paper that is due in tomorrow (thought it was due next month 😱) so kids have been delighted to be allowed to play on screens mostly... will take them to indoor play at 5. And not eat anything from the cafe while I’m there!

Feel better soon MrD

And thanks for the encouragement bigchoc!

Thanks BCF - I avoid lovely bread generally but it is TOTM and I was making breakfast for DD and her friend and got sucked in (was going to have the egg and mushroom one with my painkillers).

I haven’t eaten since, not hungry at all.

Despite it being TOTM I have lost 1kg and the dress fits already. Thrilled 😁!

MrD I know how rotten it is recovering from something like that, you will feel fine until you start to do things - BCF is right, you will need to be careful (and patient with your recovering body).

Sorry Captain- you can definitely do this!

Don't worry all, taking it very carefully... and completely agree that every time I do ANYTHING I feel it... normally in another coughing fit 🙄

On the good side, I'm learning to do stuff in short bursts and rest in between. This way I'm getting less frustrated by the state of the house and I've managed to avoid this kids killing each other.

Decided to have soup for lunch and then my stir fry (no oil) for dinner so I was putting less strain on my body even though I felt fine. Stir fry was amazing and had Singapore rice noodles, ginger lime and chilli chicken, with bean sprouts, carrots, broccoli, green beans and corn with some light soy sauce.

Not your standard story fry veg but found ones that work and the kids and I all enjoy too .

Kitchen closed on 613 and quite honestly I'm stuffed

Box congrats on the SV and the dress NSV too!
Keep going captain, you're doing ace!

Go for it, captain You know you can do this
All that peeing may be getting rid of retained water, which would help your BP as well as weight

Enjoy your supper

Well done on your FD, MrD

For the next couple of months, just drop 'em - your standards I mean !
Ignore the house except for the absolute basics of weekly bathroom & kitchen
A fortnightly hoover would be enough too

Congratulations on your SV and dress NSV, Box
Especially impressive during totm, when people normally have a temporary gain of retained water

That stir fry sounds lovely MrD - I have some rice noodles, and bought stir fry veg and salmon for tomorrow, so may try a variant of that.

I feel you in the peeing Captain - it makes me think I haven't been drinking enough water for years. Hopefully we'll get used to proper hydration soon .

Thanks for all the support and encouragement. I read a few of the old threads and they were so motivating and supportive, it really, really helps.

FD finishing on about 780 calories today. Weighed in this morning at only 1lb over the top end of "happy weight range", so hopefully another few weeks and I'll be back to "normal"...just in time to go off on holiday towards the end of June

Well done to everyone for the recent SVs and NSVs! I'm off to a family event this weekend so off to try on dresses now - wish me luck...

Oh forgot to say - top lunchtime FD tip for anyone in the UK who is near to a M&S. They've now started doing "protein boxes" - so today I had a little box full of spicy chicken, pakora, cucumber and mango, all for only 179 calories. Great lunch time "picnic". They do others with egg, cheese etc too, but all high protein low cal. I'll upload a picture next time I see them.

I did it! After a disastrous start I have come in under 800 calories. I drank fizzy water tonight and ate my soup before I left turning down all the delicious canapés that passed before me.

I did it!!! Whoop! First FD done ✅. It’s such a mental thing isn’t it? Logically I know I’m not going to starve if I don’t eat for a day, and the hunger does come and go in waves... it’s been awesome having you to cheer me on so thank you!! I did have to use the power of accountability- would have been awful to have had to report a binge 😂 Dinner was soup - lentil, turnip, tomato and carrot. With lots of encona hot sauce!

Yes re the frequent trips to the loo - I always explain to my clients (soft tissue worker) that when they up their hydration it’s similar to watering a very dry plant pot. Initially all the water just runs straight through, but once the soil is more hydrated it actually can retain more water. Hopefully I won’t need to wee all night too.

Brilliant captain, you nailed it
For those who wee a lot, I recommend lots of water through the day, but cut it out the last 2 hours before bed, except for a few sips at need.

Well done on your FDs too, Box, bug
especially refusing canapes, box Good disipline

Those M&S protein boxes sound ideal for FDs, bug
Good find that other UK 5:2ers can try

Keep drinking water, mimia
(but not close to bedtime !)

Good find on the protein boxes bug, I'll look out for those if I have to travel on a FD. There's almost always an M&S food shop accessible.

Had a good NFD yesterday, 2nd mini FD today. Planning to have cod with a mass of stir fry veg tonight. I'm finding I'm sleeping better this week, have suffered mild insomnia (and a wakeful small child) for several months. The child has also been staying in her own bed 2/3 nights, definitely helping, but even when she comes in I'm actually going back to sleep now.

Hello! So yesterday was a bad food day (birthday) but back on it today with a FD. Just had a cup of tea, then I have two soups I've bought which both are under 200 cal, and will have a boiled egg with dinner.

Good luck to everyone fasting!

Good luck, mship, mimbles

Was that your birthday yesterday mimbles ?

Good luck to everyone fasting today. I'm working tonight so fd for me too, though I think I'm going to find it hard today. It's cold and rainy, and after a soggy dog walk I want all the food. Also it'll probably be quieter in work tonight (we're a beachfront restaurant) so it'll be tougher to not pick at things. I'll be strong though, as it's been so exciting seeing the scale head downwards. I had a bovril the other night which wasn't as tasty as I'd hoped. I imagine I'll get used to it.

Good luck, mimia

With Bovril, I add just a little squirt of tomato puree - I buy puree in tubes
That really jazzes up the drink

How are all the fasters tonight? I managed not to pick my way through the day which is a victory for me! NFD, missed breakfast as was busy and not hungry, soup and haloumi for lunch and then pasta and garlic sautéed greens for dinner. Followed by some crisps because it was film night and I fancied them! Could have done without but what’s done is done. It’s my 10 year anniversary tomorrow, taking kids for lunch with DH and then we will have a grown up meal together at dinner so planning next FD for Friday.
How often do you all (honestly!) weigh in?

Managed ok today. Teriyaki salmon with veg and rice noodle stir fry at about 3.30, plus a few cups of tea, so coming in at 560 calories for the day. I was immensely hungry at about 9.00, but have powered on through. Going out for breakfast tomorrow with my daughters, and very much looking forward to it 😁

Happy anniversary captain

Hi all,
I’m a returnee soon-to-be-faster, in search of moral support please. May I join? I was a regular on here about 5 years ago, lost all the weight I wanted (& more!), maintained it brilliantly and happily for ages and ages, and then got complacent, developed a load of terrible eating habits, work in a high stress and high sugar environment, and now my weight is the highest it’s ever been.
I can’t cope with the self loathing any longer, and I really really want my clothes to fit nicely again. I hate having to choose my clothes around what just about fits, rather than what I look good in :( Plus it’s summer coming up and I would love to feel good about myself on holiday with dh and the dcs.
I’ve rejoined the gym, so now I need a hand-hold and a kick up the backside, and friends who understand, and maybe some advice too, as it’s been aaaaaaaages....would that be ok please?
🤞🤞🤞

Happy anniversary, captain 💐
Have a lovely day together

btw, yesterday sounds fine;
5:2 is normal food on NFDs including a treat sometimes - that's part of what makes it sustainable

Well done on your FD, mimia
Enjoy your breakfast

I'm going out for a run along the Rhine soon and then I'll have breakfast at my fav Rhine cafe,
run by a master chef who bakes the most delicious little rye bread rolls and locally sources all his eggs, veg etc

Welcome, filly 🙂
No need to be cautious here - we're a friendly bunch !

First step is to stop any self-loathing or blame - life can get in the way sometimes of good intentions
Instead, focus on your aims and where you want to be in say 6 months

Today is a fresh start, so pat yourself on the back for taking the first important step 👍

Well done too, for rejoining the gym 🏋🏻‍♀️
Your fitness will improve quickly if you go regularly and it'll help tone flabby bits.

HIIT, spin class, pump class, any martial arts are usually more effective choices than steady state cardio exercise like treadmill, elliptical trainers or swimming, but do what you can to start with.
If you like machines, then rowing is excellent too

This time, once you reach goal, you'll have developed new heathier habits and a defined maintenance plan to help you stay there longterm.
So don't worry about that

Lots of advice in the OP under "how to start" and "FAQs" - some may be new since you last did 5:2

On FDs:

• Plan the menu in advance, the day before, so you are not hunting in the fridge

• Base each meal on a moderate portion of protein, plus masses of non-starchy veg, optionally a small portion of starchy carbs
  e.g. fish / prawns / eggs with salad or stirfry veg

• No alcohol or junk whatsoever, i.e. no cake, biscuits, choc, crisps etc

• Don't snack or graze, eat preferably just lunch & supper, or supper - nothing between
  So black coffee / espresso / tea for breakfast, preferably without milk or sweetener

• Start the day with a glass of water and keep drinking - take water with you.

• To help avoid headaches while you adapt to fasting, glug a teasp Marmite (10 cals) - regard it as medicine, even if you hate it.
  It replenishes salt & other minerals, also boosts B vits

• Do NOT eat back any exercise calories on FDs

NFDs

If you count calories,do NOT eat back exercise calories via gadgets - they often fib !
Instead, allow for them only on NFDs, via TDEE

Try to keep 5:2 healthy habits, even at weekends:

• NHS alcohol limits,
• NEVER snack / graze between meals,
• have sensible amount of treats and only as part of a meal
• lots of water & veg
• cut down on flavoured fizzy drinks, even diet ones

Hello everyone - i’m crap at posting (but do read) - I just braved the scales, only the third time since I restarted 5:2 in the new year ... anyhow i’ve lost 25lbs since the last weigh in (March I think). That’s a total of 55lbs since Christmas.

I’ve just finished week one of the BSD, I’m planning to come back to 5:2 when that’s done.

Thank you for all the anniversary wishes :)

fillybuster I pretty much did the same thing too - lost the weight then stopped for some reason! Back on it now - feel like I’ve had a mental shift and I’m ready to lose weight again. With me I think part of the weight gain is a way of hiding too - trying to blend into the background, but I’m Ramping up my business and I Need to be seen!

It’s a gorgeous day, we are going house viewing and have a viewing on our house too - love a good nosey about other people’s homes 😂

Have a good day everyone, fasters - you’ve got this :)