5:2 Thread number 85: No need to tell people you are fasting - just show them your results.

[BigChocFrenzy]

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" to maintain on the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally"
means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below if you need a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: Mosely TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc Frame
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: BFat Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units

FD Recipes:
Mosely LowCarb , low carb Diet Doc
BBC Good Food 52 , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know ,
Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals

Any Day:
Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie

FAQs / Tips

• WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
• HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
• SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
• EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.

HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.

• FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.

Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.

• BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.

You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.

• NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.

• Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.

• CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

Hi all, have been reading but not posting while we’re on holiday. Great to hear all the SVs and NSVs. I’ve been eating sensibly overall I think - there’s a little restaurant over the road that does a lovely tuna salad, and I’ve been having that for lunch most days and then eating more traditional Cretan fare for supper. Flying home tomorrow and I think I’ll attempt a FD, because otherwise the stress of travelling with a toddler leads to poor food choices and overeating for me. So I’ll have a good breakfast here and then try to stick to coffee and water.

mrd take good care of yourself, I’m really sorry to read about your suspected whooping cough and I hope you’re on the mend very soon.

Good plan, Hummus
Plane journeys are a good opportunity for FDs, as most of us don't feel deprived if we can't have plastic airline food !
It also makes more time available to you

Mship Most folk find it advisable to move FDs to avoid social events.
It's frustrating when everyone else is eating & drinking, while you are so restricted and it can make you feel deprived

The type of FD calories really matters, more so than the extra calories

Hence the FD rules:

• no alcohol EVER on FDs, because alcohol blocks both cell repair and fat-burning

• no sugary junk, e.g.cake, biscuits, chocs, because this hinders fat-burning too and increases hunger

• maximise fasting benefits by eating reasonably nutritious food and drinking plenty of water.

Morning all - I've had an amazing week, in which the only sweet things I've eaten have been a welsh cake and two chocolates ( box type), all within my calorie allowance. This is a huge HUGE change for me. I'm pretty sure that for quite some time I've been about 40% sugar. I don't know why, but I woke up last Sunday morning knowing I couldn't carry on as I was, and it's like my brain and stomach are in accord. I've actually had three fast days this week, though yesterday's wasn't intentional, but as the day panned out it just seemed to be what I wanted. The scales are down too, by almost 5lb! I've not had any alcohol at all, and though I don't drink a lot I'm pretty sure my body loves alcohol calories, but I'm waiting until I really want some.

A teensy part of me is waiting for the crash, where I fall into a cheesecake, but whilst it's only been a week, I don't think I've ever stuck to plan so comfortably and without effort for more than a few days. Long may this continue

mimia that's lovely to hear! Great SV too

I regretted the alcohol even more yesterday, was cider and I'd forgotten that it was an IBS trigger. Still uncomfortable today but improving. Had a good NFD though. Will stick to a glass or two of red wine on future social occasions. Moving FDs is harder on 4:3 minis, but should be ok with the occasional swap with a weekend day and some good planning.

Ok. I've had enough of being fat and I'm ready to get serious about taking care of my body and health.

Started today: plan is 5:2 (though I might do 4:3 for first few weeks to get started) then will do low-sugar 8:16 for the remaining days. Swimming twice a week and a short workout DVD on other days.

Motivate me please! What has been your favourite thing about losing weight?

Looking forward to being on this journey with you.

Congratulations on your SV, mimia
and on the sweet junk NSV

That's a great week and a great start - keep on trucking !

Mship If you find it tough to move FDs, then to cope with FD social events:

• NO alcohol whatsoever - it stops it being a fast

• Drink only water, at least 2 glasses to help stay full

• Take one plate and don't go for seconds, unless it is raw veg, undressed

• No sweets, crisps, pies, deep-fried food, creamy sauces, dressings or mayo

• Avoid bread, potato or pasta, especially in sauces.
  A moderate portion of veggy rice or cousous is usually OK

• Load up on lean protein - e.g. slices of meat, fish, chicken breast etc - or beans / cottage cheese if you are veggy
  plus salad - good with lemon / balsamic or just a teasp of other dressing
  and veggy sides, especially chopped up raw veg sticks or roast veg

• Warning: nuts are too moreish unless you portion just a few on your plate and have no seconds.

Welcome, mimble 🙂
Many people have had great success on these threads,
those starting from BMI 40+, those with just a few kg to shed and everyone between

A big advantage of 5:2 is being very strict on 2 days, but not feeling hungry the other 5 days
So it is sustainable longterm for most of us

Unlike standard daily calorie restriction - where weight loss is often over 25% lean mass - 5:2 fully retains muscle,
which is good for health & shape.
Hence most people report looking "smaller" than the last time they were at the same weight

Extensive scienctific research has found that regular fasting can improve issues with insulin metabolism, also conditions like PCOS, IBS, asthma, some skin ailments
It is also recommended by leading researchers into healthy aging.

For best results, on NFDs, try to keep 5:2 healthy habits, even at weekends:

• NHS alcohol limits,
• NEVER snack / graze between meals,
• have sensible amount of treats and only as part of a meal
• lots of water & veg
• cut down on flavoured fizzy drinks, even diet ones

This will also set up good longterm habits for maintenance, to help avoid regain

Thanks @BigChocFrenzy ! FD today, had a big mug of tea (needed) but then will have a soup for lunch & a piece of chicken with broccoli for supper. Will go swimming this evening to keep my mind off food!

Also, that's so interesting re: asthma. Mine is awful at the moment & I'm the biggest I've ever been...

FD here today but am going to aim for 800cals. I have rowed, I have cut it back to 5000m until after my B12 jab and walked the dog a couple of miles to cool down.

Hopefully I will feel better on 800cals. Have had 100g Greek yogurt, berries and seeds for breakfast = 260cals.

5000m rowing at moderate intensity = 300cals.

Not sure what dinner will be yet. I have got an online food shop arriving at 1pm so plenty to choose from.

Good luck to everyone fasting today.

Good luck, mimbles, Box

Good going box! I'm impressed you can do a serious aerobic workout on a FD. Closing kitchen on my mini at 1029. Little over but needed a miso hit mid afternoon.

I did it first thing TheMShip, on the back of yesterday's food , I usually row at 5:35am and that is a fairly easy run for me (so not that impressive is what I am saying!).

I am done here, marinated chicken salad for dinner, I had a poached egg and some purple sprouting broccoli at lunchtime as I was peckish.

Scraped in at 783 cals.

I dragged DD out for a walk so have walked nearly seven miles today.

Well done, Mship, Box

How did your FD go, mimbles

Fast day today - was under threat as I had to go out for lunch with my mil, but I had a salad and managed the rest of the evening with a piece of scampi and a bovril. It was just a bit earlier than I like to eat on a fd normally, and I'm quite hungry now, but back from work and I can certainly wait until the morning.

I'm feeling so proud of myself at the moment. My mil tried to press a dessert on me on Thursday and it was no hardship to refuse. We went out last night and I had no wine or dessert, when it would have been so easy to have both. Every little thing like this makes me feel like it will only get easier. It's also the first week in absolutely ages in which I've had no wine. I never thought of myself as a big drinker, but as work has been more stressful the more I've had a glass or two as a matter of course. I'm going for another wine free week, to really spur me on.

Well done mimiasovitch.

I might try for another 800 day today. I am going out tonight but I am planning on choosing to drive rather than walk, I could be under a bit of 'dessert' type pressure there mimiasovitch but if I drive I won't get any.

I am also out tomorrow evening, hence trying for another one today!

Morning all

Checking in for a FD here, am mostly fine now apart from the occasional coughing fits which nothing helps anyway. Obviously I will be careful but I'm pretty confident it will be fine.

Planning a chicken stir fry for dinner tonight.

Will check back on previous posts now but well done all for any SVs / NSVs

Good morning! Please may I join in? I was doing this years ago and loved it, lost loads of weight, felt great and then .... I stopped! No idea why. I am now at my almost heaviest ever (96.5 kgs) and feeling rubbish and worried about how it is affecting my health.
I found that the easiest way for me was just to eat dinner on a FD - soup, as I’ve yet to find or make a soup you can actually eat more than 500 cals of in a sitting!!
I’m kicking off today with a FD.
I’m a great lurker but decided I’d better post for accountability as it’s half term which generally has meant lots of snacks with the kids! Not today.... :)

Morning!
Just checking in after a couple of weeks' absence
It was my birthday last week and there is so much cake here after a party at the weekend. I've frozen a lot of it and am offering it to anyone who comes with 10 feet of my front door
Have had a few problems with ds over the last couple of weeks and planning to take him out for breakfast this morning to cheer him up so I think my first FD of the week will be tomorrow and maybe a second on Friday.
Good luck Tuesday fasters!!

Well done, mimia
Excellent progress with lots of healthy choice NSVs
You sound very positive

Great news that you are so much better, MrD
Good luck on your 1st FD back, but go for 800 cals and turn it into a miniFD if you find it tough

Welcome, captain and good luck 🙂

Many 5:2ers find it easiest to have just supper on an FD; whatever schedule works for you is fine
Posting here does help stay focused and there is always plenty of support & advice when you need it.

When people near their goal weight / waist, I discuss a definite maintenance plan
Otherwise, it is too easy to slip back into the old habits that caused the original weight gain

This time, once you reach goal, you can have the tools to stay there

Happy birthday for last week, clutter
Enjoy your breakfast out with DS

Spoke to the doc who agreed it is probably whooping cough, also said not much point testing to confirm as over the worst of it and the antibiotics I had would have been used for that too.

FD going fine so far, sticking to water for now and looking forward to my stir fry at lunchtime, I'll go for 800 if needed and just keep today flexible as needed

How long will that last MrD? Good to have a reason after feeling so rough.

I think I might have blown my FD but will see. Unbelievably high calorie count in two small pieces of whole grain sourdough, half an avocado and three sliced cherry tomatoes on one, one scrambled egg and four closed cap mushrooms cooked in a teaspoon of olive oil, no added butter etc ...... 609 calories - no wonder I don’t eat bread much .

Strong chance that I don’t choose to eat another meal today and I have got some homemade chicken and vegetable broth that I could squeeze in and still be under 800 Cals.

Will try my best and hope the food doesn’t look too good tonight!

Could be weeks box. Technically up to 10, but as I've had it before it should be milder and as I've been going a few weeks already hopefully not too much longer!