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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 85: No need to tell people you are fasting - just show them your results.

968 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 03/05/2019 10:15

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" to maintain on the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally"
means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below if you need a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: Mosely TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc Frame
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: BFat Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units

FD Recipes:
Mosely LowCarb , low carb Diet Doc
BBC Good Food 52 , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know ,
Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals

Any Day:
Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
TheMShip · 23/05/2019 07:45

Forgot about the miso soup option, I actually have packets in my desk. Will do that next time. I'm still feeling off this morning even after breakfast, a bit light headed. I'm sure getting properly started on the day will help.

Well done on the fast mimia, and good luck today box and all other Thursday fasters.

CoffeeCupDayDream · 23/05/2019 07:58

Morning!

We had a bit of a family crisis on Monday so, emotionally, I couldn't make a fast work. So I'm back again today to try again. I have a really really busy day which should make things much easier.

I really need to do this. I have 3-4 stone to lose and feel overwhelmed. I have failed before with various diets as I want too much too soon. So looking at doing this over the next 12 months - 1lb a week will be perfect!

I turn 40 this weekend and feel very disappointed with myself Sad

I need to catch up on the thread since I last posted which I will do in the spare hour I have his morning. Thanks for having me ..... here I go!!

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 23/05/2019 08:28

morning all, just logging on quickly to say mini fd yesterday was a disaster! head firmly in holiday mode, will try and be as mindful as possible, but will be off it until 1st June.

coffee good luck today, and don't be so hard on yourself, you can do this....

Hope you are feeling better mrd (i've not read the last page) and hope everyone is having good FDs, NFDs, SVs and NSVs. Will try and log on for some accountability on holiday Grin

have a great day everyone Smile

OohMrDarcy · 23/05/2019 09:23

Morning all

I've definitely turned a corner here, peak flow is still down and still coughing sometimes but that permanent exhaustion / weakness is gone so I'm happy! Must be on the mend as the house is driving me mad and I've summoned the motivation to sort some of it Grin

Am desparate to fast and get back into it asap, but suspect BigChoc will tell me no for today / rest of this week? In which case I'm at least going for 16:8 for the rest of the week again, dinner is still being decided but will involve some lovely cajun chicken I think.

Well done everyone - I've been vaguely following the thread still!

milleniumhandandprawn · 23/05/2019 10:33

Yay! Welcome back to the land of the living mrd!
That's such good news and long May it continue.
I can guess what bigchoc will say too... and I would agree. For the sake of a few more days, it probably sensible to get your strength all the way back up.

I'm definitely feeling slimmer today. I love the feeling of lightness after an FD.
It's my birthday this weekend though so in anticipation of a badly behaved weekend I might squeeze in an extra fd tomorrow 😬

Ithinkyourewonderful · 23/05/2019 10:45

Good Luck Thursday fasters!

You can do it coffee - if I can, you can!! Once you get into the swing of things, it will become easier and you will see the weight come off quite quickly which is super motivational. I found that checking in here regularly helped me with keeping accountable and for pep talks Smile.

Still wavering around the 60 kg mark (up 500g since yesterday Confused) and will have another FD tomorrow or it might have to be Saturday.

I love baking but I probably shouldn't as the temptation is too much!

BigChocFrenzy · 23/05/2019 10:57

Well done, mlllenium, mimia, Mship

Enjoy a rest, Box
Training restdays are essential, to rebuild your musces rebuild
You need at least 1 day per week without any training, just a short walk outside if you like

This is how muscle is built:
load-bearing training of sufficient intensity will create microtears in the muscle fibres, which are then rebuilt to be even stronger during your sleep & rest

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 23/05/2019 11:02

Great news, MrD
but < wags finger with everyone else > NO fasting unitil you are up & about and feeling fit again

Good luck, coffee
You can do this.
Post whenever you need support

Happy Weight Range is about 2kg / 5lb, wonderful to allow for natural weight fluctuations

OP posts:
SpottyDuvet · 23/05/2019 12:14

FD today - the 3 NFDs were fine I think - today am going to roast veg and see where that takes me. No crazy hunger as yet so that helps.

Not going to weigh again til Monday morning. Good luck fellow Thursday Fasters!

BigChocFrenzy · 23/05/2019 14:46

Good luck, spotty

OP posts:
boxlikeamarchhare · 23/05/2019 19:30

Great to hear MrD.

Thanks BCF. I ate a baked potato with cottage cheese for lunch and decided to give up on my FD. Just felt a bit off.

My b12 injection (pernicious anaemia) is due next week, I now get them every 56 days since my last blood test results at Christmas.

I just need to listen to my body - I actually feel up to rowing this evening but I am going to leave it until tomorrow.

HLBug · 23/05/2019 20:29

I'm closing today on about 800 cals which I'm happy with as even that has required some serious willpower. Will try for a sensible NFD Friday tomorrow. Glad you're feeling better MrD

BigChocFrenzy · 23/05/2019 22:17

Well done, bug
You nailed a tough one

Box Yep, always best to segue into a healthy NFD if you feel off
Relax this weekend and resume Monday

With your intense training, I suggest next week you try 2 miniFDs (sub-1000 cals) instead of 2 FDs

Gorgeous sunny day here for my training rest day, so I enjoyed a Rhine walk and a laze in the sun.

Wednesdays are my toughest day, as I train twice:
body styling class in the morning and advanced lifting in the evening

In the lifting class, we have to do each set of lifts for the length of a song, so about 4 minutes
Yesterday was a typical sadistic program:

We alternated between 4 minute sets of bentover rows and sets of pressup variants, increasing the barbell weight each time
Then a set of barbell squats, then a bench press set
and the finale: barbells held overhead, arms vertical, while sitting down on the step and standing
< drips sweat in memory >

OP posts:
SpottyDuvet · 23/05/2019 23:14

Closed on about 550 today and will skip breakfast tomorrow as having a good sized lunch.

BCF that is a lot of exercise for a day! Very impressive!

Ithinkyourewonderful · 24/05/2019 10:10

Checking in for a FD today. Went out on the razz last night, and may have exceeded the NHS alcohol guidelines Blush so hoping I manage. Good luck all other fasters today!

BigChocFrenzy · 24/05/2019 11:29

Well done, spotty

Good luck, wonderful and any other Friday faster

OP posts:
nolongersurprised · 24/05/2019 12:01

Friday evening here, managed my first b2b over Wednesday/Thursday. Was ok, not as bad as I’d thought.

I’m down another 500g to 63.8 so officially met goal (64kg) but I think I’ll adjust this to 62kg where I’ve happily been before. I definitely still have some extra and I don’t look scrawny.

Good luck to Northern Hemisphere Friday fasters!

coffee I’ve lost nearly 12kg over 24 weeks but with every 4kg or so lost I’ve felt better. You can do this. Plus, on the NFD I’ve been very “normal” - a glass or two of wine on weekends, chocolate if I’ve felt like it, dinners out etc. It works and the overall sense of restriction/deprivation is only limited to 2 days so it’s sustainable

TheMShip · 24/05/2019 12:26

Happily getting through my third mini FD of the week today. It's my day off work, so my share of house cleaning keeps me busy till noon, then the kids are home for the afternoon (Scotland, Friday half days). I'm having haggis and sweetcorn for mini lunch. Yum!

BigChocFrenzy · 24/05/2019 13:25

Well done on nailing your 1st b2b, surprised
and on your SV, nailing your original goal.

Many other 5:2ers have found they can comfortably go beyond their original goal, which is absolutely fine.
Sometimes the 1st goal seems daunting enough at the start, but you learn what works for you and see the inches gradually melting away

OP posts:
blodynmawr · 24/05/2019 19:37

3 lb off this week so now at 25 lbs lost since Jan. Smile
That averages about 1lb per week but the reality has been all over the place - sometimes no loss; sometimes up to 4lb lost; most of April a plateau Confused. Despite doing the same every week!
But never mind - at least it's all coming off and I'm still motivated, despite the temptations of a week off looming!
Welcome to the newbies and my advice would be to stick with it - it's a marathon not a sprint Smile

BigChocFrenzy · 24/05/2019 20:15

Congratulations on your SV, blodyn
Quite a few people lose in fits & starts rather than linearly
It's very individual, but you are well within the range of normal Smile

OP posts:
LadyOfTheFlowers · 24/05/2019 20:40

I'm currently doing 20:4
That cool?

OohMrDarcy · 25/05/2019 07:46

Morning all

Have weighed in to see the damage from this bug and I'm 2.6lb up. Not massively bothered by that as I know some/ most is undigested food and should go next week once I'm back fasting.

I've also worked out what it is I've got / had - its bloody whooping cough. The cough / gasping for breath happened just before bed last night and it suddenly clicked. Had a quick Google and everything fits including it starting with a cold bug! I've also had it before as a child so should be milder, and the only treatment is antibiotics which wont get rid completely but will reduce symptoms which also fits. Fingers crossed it doesn't go on too much longer though as it can be up to 10 weeks 😱 I think with the original bug I'm nearly at 3 already.

Anyhoo as I'm much better I'm getting back to fasting next week.

Well done on all the lovely fasting successes and SVs!

BigChocFrenzy · 25/05/2019 08:11

MrD 💐
Try not to worry about weight, just concentrate on healthy meals, no snacks
and try to cut out junk while you aren't fasting.
Daily 12:12 would help, if you can manage that

Remember to drink plenty of water, as always !

Are you seeing your dotor again early next week ?
They should be able to check whether you indeed have whooping cough and if so, give the correct treatment

lady Generally, it is whatever system works for you, but that particular system - for NFDs - is best kept only for a short period, to boost initial loss and maybe cut a snack habit
Fine for FDs, of course, just to have one meal, as it would only be a moderate size meal.

With very short eating windows on NFDs, it is v important not to get into a bingeing habit
or to get used to huge meals, because hardly anyone can sustain 20:4 lifelong.

Also, if that 4-hour period is in the evening, then research suggests that eating a day's calories then is not healthy longterm, because it increases the risk of high BP and CVD

I recommend that you use NFDs as training to move towards at least 16:8, i.e. an 8-hour window, with 2-3 meals, no snacks between.

Mosely, using research from fasting experts like Longo, who are interested in longterm health and healthy aging, rather than just weight loss,
now recommend daily 12:12, i.e. a daily 12-hour eating window, or slightly less

OP posts:
TheMShip · 25/05/2019 09:37

Fell off a bit last night, but learned the important lesson that for me, FDs and socializing where there's alcohol don't mix. Even one drink and I begin to make poor choices about food. Oh well, it is what it is, I came in at about TDEE anyway. I'll adjust future FD timings to account for that.